Travel Smart: Secrets From a Harvard MBA-Turned-Nomad

Welcome to the Wanderlearn Show. I’m your host France Tapa. But today I’m not your host. Actually, the host will be Harish Li Car. He is involved with the Superworld app, which is a cool new app that allows you to voyage virtually all over the world. It’s pretty neat. You should check it out. The link is in the description. In it, he’s interviewing me. You can see a link also for the YouTube video if you want to see it on YouTube. I cleaned up a little bit of the audio and I’m sharing it with you because you might be interested in it. In the podcast, I talk about the misconceptions that people have about going to dangerous countries and why they’re a lot safer than you think. How I picked up 3,000 hitchhikers across Africa and what it taught me about humanity. Why leaving behind a traditional career was the best decision of my life. My top strategies for traveling on a budget without sacrificing too much. And a little bit about my upcoming book. All right, here we go. Enjoy. And don’t forget to become a patron at patreon.com/fapon. [Music] I’m really excited today to introduce my guest Francis Tapon, host of the Wander Learn Show, and really explore his life, his travels, and what inspires him. So, thanks so much for joining us on the Building a Better World podcast. pleasure to be here. I’ve seen a lot of your content and and uh love all of the adventures uh that you’ve you’ve talked about and and shown us um in in the content that you produce and I’m so excited to have you on to learn more about um your inspiration. Maybe as a starter would love to learn kind of um more about your background. How did you you know get started and what kind of prompted you to um you know build what you’re building? Well, I got started in the womb, my think, and because my mom is from Chile, my father’s French, and I was born in San Francisco. So, right off the bat, I got like three passports kind of perfectly made for traveling the world. And, you know, half my family was in Europe, but the other half was in South America, and then, you know, I was being raised in North America. And so, the people talk about three culture kids, well, I was like a four culture uh kid. And so, I think that was uh the inspiration. Wow. And uh did you travel a lot at an early age? I mean you you know did you when did you start really kind of um you know going international? I traveled before I even realized I was traveling. In other words uh I see pictures of me as a baby as an infant as a toddler in France you know next to the tufel notam and I see myself in Chile you know I don’t even have memories of that but I see while I was there. So from an early age, yes. And back then it was a lot more expensive to do. I was just talking to my mom today. This is in, you know, here you and I are talking through Zoom for free. And back then my mom said that when she needed to call uh long distance like to the United States from Chile, she would have to call in and they would say, “We will schedule your call to try back again tomorrow.” Wow. Because you you they didn’t have like the capacity. They didn’t have and and and I remember we would actually record long-distance calls like international calls. We record them so we could play them over and over again. They were so expensive. It’s like the equivalent of today like I don’t know like 10 bucks a minute or whatever it is. You know, it’s just really really expensive. Maybe five bucks a minute. It was just a very expensive to make an international call. And here you and I are talking. Not just talking, we’re seeing each other. It’s video. It’s crazy. For free. I know. It’s crazy just how it’s uh how technology is really improving the connection of of being able to communicate and and to to be able to visualize and and get and get to know the world. Uh so did you um did you where did you grow up? Did you grow up in the US, do you say? Yeah, San Francisco, California. Yeah. And uh what what got you into travel then? Did you do you start in a traditional kind of career and and uh move into um travel or was it um you know something that kind of sparked that that change or the the inception of it? Well, I always had a bit of a wander lust even as a child. I would go explore creeks and things like that and you know just general interest and curiosity that would lead my nose to go to places. But I would say that the first time when I really traveled was right after college. I took a proverbial trip to Europe. It took 75 days. My buddy and I went to about most of Western Europe including parts of central Europe and the this was in n anyway when we were 22 years old. So it was a seinal trip and I think that’s when I really love travel. And I think the other inflection point was when I was 30. That’s when I hiked the Appalachian Trail. And that’s when I had 4 months of hiking about 3,000 km or about 2,000 mi. And I was able to really contemplate like what do I want to do with my life? And I thought to myself, well, I would love to travel all the time and I don’t need a billion dollars to to do that. Why can’t I just do that now? So how come how about I restructure my life so that I can travel as much as I can and maybe forego a lot of income as a result but at least accumulate a lot of experiences and how did you do that what was the what was the progenitor of doing that and how did you uh make that a possibility in your life because a lot of people want to travel and they’re very inspired by your stories and I’d love to go into kind of all the places you have traveled to hear those stories but just as a starter you know how did you um think through that big dramatic kind of thing because a lot of people don’t go after the things that they want. Yeah. And I had something that both enabled me and disabled me from doing that. I went to Harvard Business School to get an, you know, MBA. And anybody who has an MBA from Harvard is really encouraged to make a billion dollars and to start big companies and you know launch a startup or work for IBM or Google or whatever and rise the corporate ladder and become CEO and you know get the all the accolades. So, in that sense, it disabled me in the sense that it kind of crushes any kind of fanciful dream of traveling the world, right? Because it’s kind of like you’re wasting your degree. I mean, like going to Harvard Medical School, for example, and you don’t become a doctor. Are you a stupid idiot? What’s wrong with you? And you know, you’re going to go to Harvard Business School and you’re not going to become a businessman, a titan of industry. What’s wrong with you? So it really takes a lot of I guess courage and maybe stupidity to just embark on such a quest and and say no to that. On the other hand, it definitely enabled me very privileged to having had that degree because then what it does it allows me to take bold risks knowing that if all else fails, I’ve got this wonderful diploma that will allow me to earn money in the future and in case I ever, you know, find myself living on the street. So that gave me courage to take risk risks that maybe normal people wouldn’t be able to take comfortably and of course I didn’t have a family or children that kind of stuff that that additionally would also create some sort of burden and and have some sort of responsibility. So those thing that one thing I think helped me and hurt me. So taking it back to your listeners I would say that you may not be blessed with that with that such a degree but at the same time you may not be cursed with it either. So, you know, count your blessings and and realize that it doesn’t take a whole lot of money and and you’re blessed to live in the 21st century where earning money is is relatively easy. The unemployment rate is far less than 5%. And you know, hey, you can do you can do great things and you can always find a job. You know, even we’re in a society now where the poorest people are fat. That’s never happened in human history. It’s always the rich people who were fat back in the old days, but now it’s the poor people who are fat. So, it just there’s it’s a land of abundance. So, let’s not forget that. Yeah, that’s definitely true that um I think that there’s there’s resources all around us um that are that are available and it’s really about kind of believing and understanding how to utilize those resources for what you want to do. But there’s a lot of opportunity um available more and more opportunity. So it’s really interesting. So you kind of, you know, as you said, start off on a a traditional kind of business path. Um, went to business school, started off in technology as I know. Um, would love to hear about, you know, what kind of drew those interests as well as they kind of, you know, kind of pulled you in in that direction before you kind of, you know, were able to fully kind of thrust out into the travel experiences as well. Okay, I’ll answer that. But I want to just add one small caveat to what I just said before, which is my message is mainly directed to people from high inome countries. So, uh, Europe, Australia, America, North America, that kind of stuff. Um, I re I recognize I’ve traveled all over Africa, for example, and I know that people there don’t have the same level of privilege and access. poorest people there are definitely not fat and and they are truly struggling in many cases and so when I say that you’re living in a place where low unemployment rate I’m not talking about South Africa where the youth unemployment rate is over 60%. There’s other things like that. So that’s uh number one regarding to answer your second question which is about how I got into I guess technology in Silicon Valley. I I was born and raised in Silicon Valley and so I had a natural affinity to technology I guess and I always had a passion for robotics and so I created a robotic company that was looking it was a machine vision company so it’s like machine eyes if you will and it was self-learning algorithm this was back in 199 late 1990s so it was doing basically artificial intelligence where we would present it a bunch of objects and it would learn things just by looking at So just kind of like we’re training a neural net. We were doing that in the in the late 1990s. Obviously a bit ahead of our time and and the startup didn’t go as well as we wanted to. But that’s kind of my origin story there. Got it. Got it. Yeah, it’s good to uh understand that caveat as well. I think um you know there is a you know a bit of uh inequality in terms of opportunities around the world and for sure um and you’ve seen it and you’ve you’ve been on the ground in in so many places um where did you start where did you start your journeys um in the world and how did that progress I know you mentioned you traveled um you know as a study abroad or kind of that that trip the proverb proverbial kind of trip after college I guess um but talk to me about like where where did you start your journeys geographically around the world? So as I mentioned before as an early child I went to France and Chile many not many times France a couple of times and Chile like probably like 10 times as as a young child and then I worked in Hitachi data systems in Silicon Valley and they sent me to Latin America a lot to do some marketing stuff for them in Latin America. So that was other trips. Then when I uh did that my trip to Europe around 22 and then I um decided I was going to become a travel writer. And so I decided instead of just jumping all over haphazardly around the world in a chaotic fashion, I would instead be more systematic and I would pick a region and really dig deep into that region. So for example, I went to Eastern Europe and spent three and a half years uh in Eastern Europe, never leaving the region and just going around 25 different countries in Eastern Europe broadly divide. And that’s what was the genesis of my book, The Hidden Europe, what Eastern Europeans can teach us. And so that was one big trip. And then the second uh another big trip, actually back up a little bit, I also hiked the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, and the Continental Dubai Trail. I did this this yo-yos. So that was a genesis of my first book, the the hike your own hike. And finally the third book which is I’m working on which is going to Africa and I went to all 54 African countries over 5 years and then I spent another three years after that to you know have some more experiences but that was started in Morocco went all the way around and ended in Morocco again and it was just an amazing adventure. I’ve definitely seen uh a lot of content around that. I can’t wait for the book to come out that you’re you’re writing. um what what do you think is the the biggest lessons um from from those trips that you’ve you’ve been on? What what do you think you you gather from those those adventures? Yeah. One of the things is something that’s common and you actually hear a lot of welltraveled people and when I say well people I’ve definitely been over 50 countries or or 100 countries these you realize there’s a common theme that people in the world are good and the world was a lot safer than it seems. We read the headlines and it seems a very scary world out there. But once you get once you actually go out there, especially even going out to places that seem scary like Africa, you know, it seems scary. But I’ve been to Sudan, South Sudan, and uh Somalia and Chad and Libya. I mean, and all these places sound horrible, but in fact, it’s not that bad. Um, and sometimes surprisingly safe. And that that’s just like quoteunquote war zones. And let alone we’re talking about places like Benin or places like uh maybe parts of Nigeria, you know, that are really not that bad. They’re totally safe. And so anyway, it’s it’s that I think that’s one of the big takeaways is that the world is not that scary of a place. Yeah, it’s important to uh be social, right? To Yes. get to know people, to um to invite people. I I I remember uh uh hearing your your talk about um your trip to Africa and you’d always you’d take people inside. You you’d actually uh pick people up and uh take them on the on on the voyage with you and you’d have, you know, lots of people in the car in your in your in your SUV. Um and that was that created this environment where it actually even made you safer in a way. Yeah, it’s the paradox. I pick up 3,000 hitchhikers in Africa and my thesis was that most people are good. And so if you have lots of good people in your car, that means you have lots of good. And if one in five is a bad, you know, criminal or has some sort of ill intent, well, he’s not going to do anything because he’s surrounded by four other people who are, you know, good local people who are going to not allow him to get away with any criminal activity. So, and that pretty much worked. I really didn’t have any major incidents the entire uh trip for after 3,000 hitchhikers and most people would not have predicted that. Yeah. Yeah. I you know I’ve done uh a lot of travel as well been over over 100 countries and and live very nomadically as a as a um as a family. So it’s me and my wife and two kids. So we love the world. We we love exploring the world. I think my my eight-year-old’s already lived in 29 countries already. So we we uh you know defin we have an eight and 5-year-old. So we we definitely love seeing cultures and places. So really kind of resonate with uh a lot of the the the things that you say and the lessons that you’ve learned. Um would love to hear some stories um about you know we spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe and I want to hear about Africa as well. um in Eastern Europe, you know, uh tell me about that was kind of some of the earlier places that you you spent time. Um would love to hear about um uh love that, you know, kind of what what what kind of um experiences did you have there? Um historically, what was going on when you were were there? That part of the world has had a lot of change politically and geopolitically. I think it’s in the news now, obviously. And so, you know, can you tell us more about what you experienced there, what you learned from being in that region, maybe some things that could relate to uh what’s happening there now? Yeah, I’m actually recording this conversation from Eastern Europe. I’m right now in Talin, which is the capital of Estonia, and I’ve this is my fifth time back in Estonia, and it’s amazing the progress. I first came to Estonia in 2024. uh sorry 2004 and uh and 2004 this is 20 years ago and it has transformed so much and you could say that about a lot about Eastern Europe and the other thing about Eastern Europe that you’ll say is that almost nobody in Eastern Europe wants to admit that they are in Eastern Europe that’s the paradox everybody wants to believe that Eastern Europe is whatever country is just east of them that’s where Eastern Europe starts so uh there’s a stigma to being in Eastern Europe because Eastern Europe is kind seen as the kind of the backward excommunist countries. And of course, they don’t feel that way. And then of course they’re not that way anymore, especially if you go to places more like in central Europe, but which was originally called Eastern Europe, which is Czecha and Hungary and and even the Balkans has improved immeasurably. A lot of people still associate this when you hear things like Kosovo and Bosnia, they’re like, “Oh my god, like Bosnia, the war ended like so long ago, 25 years ago or more.” So it’s like, get over it. And that’s one thing another thing about history really we have these really seeanging memories. If I tell you, you know, even the word Vietnam, people like Vietnam, oh, I’m going to Vietnam in a few days. And there’s probably still some people who are like associate Vietnam with some sort of danger. And so, we’re very slow at getting rid of this baggage of war and that kills tourism. But for those who are listening to this, think of that as a great ticket to go to unexplored places. So anywhere where you hear something that sounds scary, um if the war ended there like 5 years ago or less, it’s probably totally chill. No, it’s totally chill. And so and probably nobody’s going there. So it’s it’s something to consider. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I I um I noticed that as well is that uh a lot of people have these preconceived notions of of places um based on things that happened long ago that they still think persist. Um so this it’s interesting. So I I can predict today that Ukraine is going to have a maligned perspective on the tourism map for at least 10 20 years. So, you know, it’s not going to be until the year 2050 when finally, assuming the war ends relatively in the next couple years, you know, it’s not going to be until 2050 where it’s finally Ukraine is going to be like, but it was like 5 years ago, you know, relatively normal place. Nobody would be afraid of going to Ukraine just like you’re not afraid of going to Bulgaria. You know, what’s the problem with Bulgaria? Nothing. And but or Romania, what the hell? But Ukraine is going to suffer just like Serbia suffered uh from tourism. And now finally people are warming up to places like Croatia and Montenegro which are my favorite gems in Eastern Europe. Uh the coastline there is spectacular especially my favorite place of all which is Kotur Montenegro. Have you been there? Uh I’ve been to Budva. Uh okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a chance to go to Kul? Uh I can’t remember if if we Oh well then you didn’t go if you can’t remember that. It’s unforgettable. It’s unforgettable. Okay. Yeah then I probably didn’t. We went to another place besides Budba when we were there. Maybe uh I’ve been to Split um in Croatia and um uh I haven’t been to Dub Bronik. I’ve been to another city. Um I just have to to look. You’re really unusual. You’re super unusual because most people they’ll go to Drovon and not see Budva and not see or Cotto. I mean they Dub Bronick is the end of the line. They go down the Croatian coastline and then they end at Dub Bronik and then they go back to Zagreb and leave and they don’t push it a little bit further and explore into Montenegar which is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we were living in Ukraine at the time and you know my wife uh uh I don’t know picked a picked budva for uh some reason and we went in for a few days and uh I think like four or five days and checked it out and I think we went on a a road trip around there um and went into the water and and and did some things um some exploration. So it’s possible you went to Cotto or at least drove around it. If you saw a big bay with big fjords, then you probably saw cuz you went on a road trip from Budva. There’s really not that many places to go for unless you went to Albania. So it’s it’s got to be you probably saw Katar. You maybe forgot it the name. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I what your description sounds um it brings back memories. So yeah. Yeah. Tell me about, you know, any any close calls or any, you know, I I you know, any anything where you’re you obviously have to do a lot of planning for a lot of the places that you go and I’m sure sometimes things don’t work out or you’re in a situation that’s a little bit hairy. Um, you how do you deal with that? And just tell us some stories about some of those adventures. Yeah, I largely have the luxury of time and this is what most people get screwed with when it comes to travel when all of a sudden most people they plan a very tight schedule. They’re going to go to Japan and they’ve got 10 days and so every single day has to kind of work which of course works in Japan a very organized society but planning 10 days down to the what you if you’re going to Sierra Leone may not be the wisest thing. you need to have buffer time because things, you know, all a sudden the road that the the the vehicle you’re taking breaks down and all a sudden you lose a whole day and that, you know, some paperwork that you expected to be done never gets done. It’s just chaos. And so it comes down to where you’re going to. And so I’ve had plenty of things go wrong. You know, there’s an expression called TIA, which is this is Africa. Another one is called WWA which is West Africa wins again because it’s so often that things go wrong in part in many parts of Africa. uh just because it’s just it’s not an organized society like Switzerland just not and as a result you can’t depend that maybe electricity will be there maybe they won’t be there um and maybe the running water won’t work or maybe the road will be shut down and maybe the the air of the line is on strike you know who knows and so if you have the luxury of time like I do then it’s not not the end of the world you just wait another day but in other cases it can really cause havoc um yeah so that’s just That’s why people tend to prefer places like Italy because things are going to work and you can plan a schedule and it’s all going to work. Yeah. Do you um when you go off off the grid or you know in and explore places that most people don’t go? Um what kind of preparation do you do? You um I know you have a really awesome kind of uh record of all the travels on GPS you showed me. Um what kind of stuff do you do? What kind of equipment do you carry with you? Uh what’s your travel bag look like? Yeah, it depends whether I’m going with a car or not and when I’m not going with a car. And it depends also like for example in Eastern Europe, I had a tarp and a sleeping bag and a and a pad with me. So with those three items, you can camp anywhere. And it’s incredible. When I say anywhere, I’ve even camped in Rome, which was kind of a feat to pull off. I found a little park that was secluded and I was able to camp in Rome. So if I could do it there, I was like I could do it anywhere. I camped in Dubrock in the actual city of Dubro neck, the walt city, which is unusual too. I found a place. So you can camp all sorts of places. So if you I’ve camped a lot in my life and so I’m quite comfortable camping. Most people are not. And so the nice thing when you have a stealthy campsite is that you don’t have the pressure of having to find a hostel like, “Oh my god, the hostel’s full.” No big deal. You just go to the outskirts of the city and you can camp. Um, and there’s always a way. So, that’s in kind of the super lightweight backpacking, sleeping outside mode. If you have a car, then it’s a totally different dimension cuz there you’re you I mean, you can still camp actually. And I did that when I had my car in Africa. I had a G I had a what’s it called? The Toyota Hilux, which is like a pickup truck and I had all my camping gear with me. But then you can really go on the outskirts. In fact, you have to because the car sits out like a sore thumb. You’re not going to do that in an urban area. You’re not going to camp there. So, but Africa is not that dense. It’s got the same density as the United States. And so, as a result, you can there’s plenty of empty space in Africa and you can just pull aside at sunset and camp. And that’s why you would, you know, hundreds of times. So, it depends on the travel mode, but I like having the option of being able to sleep outside and that way I don’t ever have to make a hotel reservation. I think I only made a hand like five hotel reservations in 5 years in Africa. It’s just exceedingly rare that I would have to make a hotel reservation. But that’s the way I like to travel. I like to not plan tremendously because I love to have a lot of space open for serendipity. I love to being on a train and also I meet somebody on the train and they say, “Oh, no, no, no. We got to my friends and I are going to go on this trip. Why don’t you come join us?” Great. Go there. If I had a hotel reservation or I had a whole itinerary planned out, I I would be h sorry. I got to go. So, I got to go the other way. I can’t go. I can’t join you. And I’m going to miss out a great cultural opportunity, which is to me the greatest joy of travel. Yeah. Do you travel with uh groups um or individually or you you said you’re kind of uh you know, serendipitous about some of these travel plans? Um, is it always um something then therefore that you have to travel on your own or sometimes is it that you have to stay in hotels because you’re with people that want to stay in hotels or you generally with people like to travel in the same type of mode. Um what do you think about that? Um cuz I love how you travel. Um, but I assume that sometimes, you know, you meet a group and they’re like, “Hey, let’s, you know, go to this place or let’s let’s travel like this versus that way, right?” And just because you have, I mean, again, a tarp and a sleeping bag and a and a pad really doesn’t take up that much space. It only weighs about, let’s say, 1 kilogram, something like that. You know, it’s not that much. And so, you can throw those in and then that doesn’t mean you have to again. It just means that you’ve got this nice backup. So, yes, I do. I rarely rarely travel in groups. It’s extremely rare. Um I will let’s say I have a friend who might say, “Hey, I want to go travel with you for like a week or two or something like that.” I’m like, “Okay, sure. Join me.” Um and then or I can and I might I might just follow along with whatever their itinerary is. Yeah. So that kind of that that’s fine. And then we might share a hotel room together or not. And so it to me most people I haven’t met too many travelers like me who don’t mind doing urban camping or that kind of stuff. Um that’s okay. And of course doing urban camping is is easier in nice weather. I did camp in an urban setting in Latvia in the winter in February while it was snowing, but that was unusual. I was super tired and I just anyway I decided to try it and it worked. But bottom line is, you know, hotels also are very cheap in certain parts of the in the world. And for a lot of people, you know, spending 20 bucks is like, okay, no problem. Like got a nice place. And I also like hostels. Hostels are are can be quite nice because again, it’s a social environment and you get to meet other travelers. Yeah. But one one quick thing about hostels. I I stayed in a hostel in Helsinki uh just about a month ago and I was very surprised and kind of disappointed, but not actually I shouldn’t say surprised. is very different than hostiles from decades ago because everybody was on their devices and so a lot of people had their headset on and versus you know pre smartphones people were all interacting with each other and just meeting each other and it was a very social environment and nowadays everybody’s kind of buried on their screens which is is a shame. Yeah. What do you think about that? I mean you’re in Silicon Valley and you know some of the things that we’re focused on at Superworld is is about what we’re building is all about going out there and doing things in the real world. So, um, you know, we’re focused on people’s real lives. What do you think about the fact that, you know, I think, you know, people are getting more stuck into their devices and and maybe not going out. What do you say to society? How how should we kind of promote travel and exploring it, going out in into the in the wild into the wild? Well, I’m not I’m an optimist in general, so I kind of default to that. And I and I think it’s not as doom and gloomy as some people think for a few stats. Um, air travel used to be expensive, especially in Europe. It got cheap in America first and then it became cheap in Europe, too. So now all you can fly for less than €50 or €10 or €20, whatever. It’s crazy. Um, and and even longer flights are only a couple hundred. So airline prices have dropped dramatically in the last few decades. So that’s accessible. I think also because we’re international, we can have a lot I have a lot of Facebook friends are international and so all of a sudden you can create these relationships digitally online. Uh you can go to let’s say superworld and and get inspired digitally by some place like oh my god I never knew this gorge existed in this part of China. Maybe I should go check out that gorge in real life. And so I think the digital world can work well to inspire people uh either through digital friendships that they start there and then you actually meet. There’s countless people who’ve met online and getting married for God’s sakes. And so to me I don’t see it as a thing that’s necessarily all negative. Obviously there’s some negative that the whole digital world but I can see it as being an inspiration as a way to maintain bonds. That’s the other thing is that back in the past when I met some girl I was 12 years old. I met her in Switzerland. we had to write handwritten letters and mail them. It would take like a month to get there. Nowadays, after I meet somebody in Switzerland, I could like get on WhatsApp and do video calls for the rest of my life with them, you know? So, it’s it’s a way to maintain those connections and all a sudden it makes travel a lot easier. I I agree that the technology can be used for positivity and good. So, I’m also optimist. Um, well, um, I know you have a book coming out, so I’d love to, you know, tell us more about your book coming out and and and also just places that people can find you and hear more about you and hear your story and and and if there’s anything else you want us to share to our audience. Sure. The book is called The Unseen Africa and you can go to the unseenaffrica.com. I also have a podcast and a YouTube channel. Uh, you go to wanderlearn. So, I believe in wandering around the world and learning. So, that’s why I credit that wanderlearn.com. And the book, I don’t know if it’s coming out in 2026. Let’s just say 2026. We’ll just say that as a date. Um, it’s it’s but I have a Patreon where people can get the books, the chapters as I write them. There are going to be 54 chapters. I’m more than halfway done and you can read back chapters once you become a patron. So, that’s pretty much what I’m working on right now. and I really appreciate the time that you’ve had uh to share this with your audience and I hope I’ve inspired some of them to go out there and get off their couch and go. Yeah, thank you so much. You know, your story is so inspiring and you know, your your content that you make and videos and and just showcasing all these places in the world is is so amazing. So, thank you so much for being on and and and sharing your story, Francis. It’s a pleasure and looking forward to having you on again when your book comes out and when you can share more stories. Sweet. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much. And that ends this episode of the Wandlearn podcast where we explore travel, technology, and transformation. If you’d like to see the show notes with links to what we’ve talked about, go to wanderlearn.com and click on this episode. If you’d like to connect with me, just remember FTapon. That’s my first initial and my last name. Ftap-on is always my social media username. My website is ftapon.com. Do you want to leave me an anonymous voicemail where you can make a comment or ask a question? Then go to speakpipe.com/ftapon. Furthermore, if you’d like to get rewarded for supporting my projects, then go to patreon.com/fapon. That’s where you can pick up some remarkable rewards for as little as $2 a month. Now, five quick favors. Number one, subscribe to the Wandlearn podcast. Two, download it. Three, share it. Four, review it. And five, sign up for my newsletter at wanderlearn.com. Our theme music was composed by Eric Strapman. This is Francis Tabon encouraging you to wander and learn. [Music]

Hrish Lotlikar of the Superworld app (https://www.superworldapp.com/) interviewed me in 2025.

Watch the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwY8cEG3ifY) on their channel

You might enjoy it. Here’s what the Superworld Channel wrote:

What if you could leave behind the corporate grind and explore the world—without a trust fund? That’s precisely what Francis Tapon did. After earning an MBA from Harvard and working in Silicon Valley, he walked away from it all to spend five years traveling through every country in Africa and 3.5 years exploring Eastern Europe.

In this episode of Building a Better World with Hrish Lotlikar, Francis shares:

✅ The biggest misconceptions about “dangerous” countries and why most are safer than you think
✅ How he picked up 3,000 hitchhikers across Africa and what it taught him about humanity
✅ Why leaving behind a traditional career was the best decision of his life
✅ His top strategies for traveling on a budget—without sacrificing incredible experiences
✅ What his upcoming book, The Unseen Africa, reveals about the world’s most misunderstood continent

🌍 Want to see the world differently? Don’t miss this conversation!

Follow Hrish Lotlikar (https://www.instagram.com/hrishlotlikar)

Follow Superworld on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/superworldapp)

Connect

Send me an anonymous voicemail at SpeakPipe.com/FTapon (https://SpeakPipe.com/FTapon)

You can post comments, ask questions, and sign up for my newsletter at https://wanderlearn.com (http://wanderlearn.com/) .

If you like this podcast, subscribe and share!

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• YouTube (http://youtube.com/user/ftapon)

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