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33 Comments
Ooo something out of Alliance.
I think the T38 was going a little faster than the controller thought.
The Tower Controller had a brain fart…. he did not sound well. Overworked? Glad this turn out ok.
In future vids, could you include the speed & altitude info block? It would give us a much better situational picture of incidents. For example, TAS1312 was at 1700' MSL, but the T38 was at 3000' MSL 6 miles out, and was at 2000' at the time of the climb instruction. Although there was loss of lateral separation, there was no real danger because of the vertical separation, and the different landing runways.
That tensed me up and I'm comfortably taking a bath. Imagine the ATC. He needs a massage and some clean underwear. His voice was trembling.
The pilot even confirmed the new instructions with the controller!
Would it have been legit for the king air pilot to state that he is not comfortable turning base now and request that ATC allow the T38 to go 1st?
Wow. Serious controller error there.
No, no, no! That was 100% controller induced. The instructor in the KingAir even confirmed he wanted him to turn in front of the T38. Controller lost situational awareness big time there. But sorted it out safely in the end, that’s the important thing. Good jobs pilots!
All I can say is Wow!!!
Nothing about this says close call or near mid-air collision, fearmongering clickbait nonsense.
that sounds like john malkovich is the atc.
I would say 70% Controller, 30% King Air, here's why. If you look at the track of the King Air he was hardly keeping a tight and square pattern. Had his downwind and base been tighter and more square to the runways I suspect he would have cleared in front of the T38.
King Air pilot to ATC – "I've got a number for you. Let me know when you're ready to copy"
After all that, then he tells the T38 to go around. . ??
With benefit of hindsight, I agree with the person suggesting the King Air could've just told ATC "unable". As in, I'm not going to turn in front of that jet right now because I'm not certain we'll avoid a collision
Thank you so much for NOT calling this a “near miss”! Finally, someone who understands language.
kudos to the Cessna guy he actually spoke up…. seems he totally knew there was something very wrong with that instruction! maybe this should have been a case of refusal to follow that instruction on safety grounds… but, that's an extreme call to make…
what I can see the pilot was properly concerned & very situationally aware.
sadly, that cannot be said for the controller it seems
I am somewhat baffled, just how did the ATC think this was going to work out???
PS: also, how would you word a refusal to follow an instruction you know will lead you into a traffic conflict? if they are asking you to do something beyond your airplane or pilot capabilities you say UNABLE, but would thesame be appropriate in this situation???
I can see my house from here. Mildly concerning.
What a mess !!!!
The inaudible part the pilot of the king air was saying that he had the t38 in sight
Im no expert but I've gotta ask…what the hell was ATC trying to do there…
As the legendary comedian George Carlin once said "It's not a near miss. It's a near hit! A collision is a near miss! *boom* Look! They nearly missed…yes, but not quite!"
Atc out of his depth
oh jeebus.. I would not have done this even on my first day of training…
SHOULD HAVE JUST EXTENDED DOWNWIND FOR THE KINGAIR ON 16L, #2 FOLLOW EURO46. C152 ON 16R WAS A GOOD DECISION
Literally had my face in my hands listening to this. Lots of brown underwear after this….
This is on the controller. I get he wanted to get the King Air in as quickly as possible but if you've got a mil fighter/fighter trainer you never put a civi aircraft in front of them. They routinely ride 250kts all the way to the ground. The pilot should have trusted his gut when verifying that sequence change and just said "unable".
My best guess is a late handoff/ coordination for the t38, so he tried to squeeze the kingair last second thinking there was a lot more time. Definitely possible if theres no tdw and was relying on a certain check point, plus t38s are tiny and practically invisible farther than 3 miles.
But we always say it's a lot easier after everythings said n done
it is kind of useless comming up with such a vide although NOT recording all important stuff (EURO 46) in my opinion
Controller is Busch league
Wow, listening to this I was calling ATC bad names very early. The T38 oncoming profile has got to be tiny at those closing speeds (200-300kts?) and he's asking TASI312 to turn in front of him and report when he sees the T38? T38 was probably going twice the speed of the KingAir and ATC is telling the KA to turn base 2 miles from airport. 2 mile final + base leg + two turns when T38 is on 5 mile final? Bad math there. ATC had it right at :51 when ATC said he would have to be behind the T38. He goofed when he tried to make it work. Glad it worked out, and he took corrective action.
As a controller of a Delta, I can see where the complexity really confused him. T38s in your sequencing are no joke. I will say he and all the pilots involved did a great job keeping comms orderly and good on him for issuing the traffic alert effectively. Hopefully lesson learned.
If in doubt, don't cut in front. Same with container ships.
Decent job unfucking himself there by the controller. Ive seen controllers make similar mistakes and pilots saying no im not turning base inside of that jet 5 mile final. So pilots, if youre vfr and its too tight for you, you can definitely tell the controller to fuck off ill go behind him in this type of scenario.