When mentioning NIMBYism also don't forget "Your-Local-MP" who will fight in the trenches to keep that sweet, sweet ICE stop at your local (meaning rural) station to keep your one-horse town connected to the world by hourly services to every main city in the country. Which, of course, massively increases the number of stops at any given line so you can only dream of a connection like the Zürich-Paris TGV in 4h with only three stops on the way… Luckily these cases seem to drop lately with more direct connections appearing – but still the ride from Berlin to Zürich is a real 9h nightmare…
I have just returned from a rail-based holiday in Germany. The regional trains were reasonably reliable (mostly within 10 minutes of schedule) but seriously overcrowded throughout the day while the EC and ICE trains were shambolic for timekeeping. Less cancellations than last year but regularly 40 to 50 minute behind schedule. Also frequent platform changes in the larger stations which is no joke when you have a suitcase as most platforms seem to be two full flights of stairs above the concourse or subway and in the circumstances with 100 people trying to change platforms there's no time to queue up for the lift. Last gripe beware of the combined rail air ticket. I purchased a Lufthansa ticket from Frankfurt which included rail travel from Cologne. This allowed 55 minutes between the train arrival (if on-time) and the aircraft departure. After my experience of Frankfurt on the outward trip I realised this was simply unachievable but when I turned up to catch an earlier train at Cologne I was told I would have to get in touch with Lufthansa to change the ticket to ride on an earlier train. So had to fork out for one myself.
i am from ulm and its very luck for me to be frome here becuse ulm is betwen münchen and studgart we get all the intercity benefits from studgart and münchen thats funny becouse ulm is just a smaler bigger city (sry for my bad english) btw verry cool video about the german intercity network
Nice video, thanks. I lived in Germany and took the ICE many times. Very nice trains. Make a video about Stuttgart 21 and the tunnels from Ulm towards Stuttgart, through the "Geislinger Steige" Mountain and under the Airport into the city. This is a very challenging route but awesome when done. People will complain about the high cost, but it is actually these peoples fault, as this project was first called "Stuttgart 2010" and on the side of the main train station was a model of how it should look in the future. This was in 1990 and nobody cared! Once they actually wanted to start, all of a sudden people came out left and right with lawsuits and demonstrations against this project, just to "preserve" the old style terminus station as a through station is not seen as important and might "degrade" Stuttgart versus Munich, Hamburg and Frankfurt;-)
My small town closed its station and the closest ones are each 20 minutes away by car. One of them only has a single line that goes to the next bigger town over every small village known to man (its currently replaced by a bus they appear to have bought from som suspicious people because its the worst experience I've even had). The other one used to have an ICE go through that took you took you to Berlin but got replaced. Every way you wanna go, our need to travel to Stendal first.
I remember all my trains running late or just being cancelled at 10PM in Stendal with – 7°C and the Station Doors being left open and I wasn't even supposed to be there. The DB told me that i was free to use any train that got me home because off all the delays which was bullshit, because on the train home i got screamed at by the conductor because my ticket wasn't for this train. Thanks Lady. She only let me go because i pretended to be a pitiful girl on her way home to visit her sick mother (including me bawling my eyes out). My journey to Berlin was even worse though. I had to get on like 3 different Regional Trains, even the Goddamm Ferkeltaxi to Rathenow which was squeezed full. And anytime i Travel in a Way which takes me to Bahnhof Uelzen i know the train will be late. Uelzen is the other closest bigger train station and i despise it with all my heart. Its the Hundertwasser Bahnhof with special design by the artist Hundertwasser. It's horrible to navigate, dark, musty, smells especially bad like pee and taking my mom in a wheelchair through there made me wanna die
You forgot the new ICE L, which will be introduced next year. In Germany we jokingly say L is for langsam (slow) because the Top speed is only 230 km/h. Looks rather like a replacement for the IC trains not the ICE. It will be the first ICE train without stairs at the entrance so people in wheelchairs can easily board the train.
Cool video! An underrated aspect of train travel in Germany is how laissez-faire the system is with the riders. You do not need a reservation on any German train (except sleepers) and you can hop on any ICE at the the last second. In comparison with Spain, Italy or France, which do have the more impressive HSR systems, it is much more low-key, usually cheaper, and rider-friendly. You can even ride all over Germany with Interrail in the best trains without paying one cent of surcharge for reservations! Not to mention the DB website is the best option for rail planning all over Europe, much better than any other domestic site even for their own countries. I remember being in North Portugal looking up trains on the DB app because it was so much easier than consulting the Spanish or Portuguese rail planning apps.
You are misrepresenting the BS that Stuttgart 21 is. Here are a few points: The whole station is considered just a stop, cause its not even enough for a station to pass. Its can fit less trains (to few for the "Deutschlandtakt") The tunnels are beeing bored through a rock that expands with mwater exposure, this may demolish half the city. Its endaring the second largest drinking water reservoir in Europe. For it they demolished a protected trainstation and park. Its delayed by DECADES Its over Budget by BILLIONS Its reducing capacity. The former trainstation was one of the most punctual in Germany. Absolutely noone wants it.
Why is it beeing built anyway? Cause moving the station underground clears building space above ground.
Less real Information here, a Frankfurt Bypass is not what passengers need and want, It needs more tracks and platforms, because there is no space an underground ICE station is planed, ICE will get tracks complete alone and will be able to approach and leave fast, the existing historical platforms and tracks will gain capacity for more regional trainieren, For people which do research it is called "Fernbahntunnel Frankfurt "
Yes! Finally! My question has been heared! Thank you for covering Stuttgart in the future! I would also be glad to provide video footage if needed! Thank you very much!
In your overview at 5:30 you are missing an important addition to the core network: Frankfurt – Hanau – Gelnhausen – Fulda – Gerstungen – Erfurt.
Frankfurt – Hanau: New ICE underground station planned in addition to the overground station plus accelerated accces through tunnels (early planning phase)
Hanau – Gelnhausen: Upgrade to 4 tracks and 230km/h (constructions recently started)
Gelnhausen – Fulda: Dedicated HS line, connecting to the Fulda – Würzburg HS line (in permission planning)
Fulda – Gerstungen: Dedicated HS line connecting the HS line Fulda – Kassel with the already upgraded line Eisenach – Erfurt (in permission planning)
I’d say the Overground is verging on being its own special category (its purpose being to cut out the centre entirely for many commuters). The Elizabeth Line (and, if it ever gets built, the Chelney/CR2) are RER like. Perhaps controversially, I’d make the case that the Thameslink/Great Northern network is the most similar to an S-Bahn in London. You have lots of routes, mostly being piped through a single core that crosses the city centre in tunnel. It even serves two airports!
The Munich-Innsbruck Route, while indirect, is pretty efficient and not even that slow. To improve this route, instead of digging a base tunnel, it would be far simpler to just upgrade the route between Munich and Kufstein at the border of Austria. The route between Kufstein and Innsbruck is already at 220km/h. An upgrade project for the route is already planned by Germany, even though it is delayed by NIMBYs as always
Good thing the hole between Munich and Frankfurt will get some upgrades (sometime in my lifetime). in 2022 I had to go from Munich to Aachen a lot and it was horrendous. Not just the delays, the never ending construction sites, but the service itself. The fastest option was to get from Munich to Aachen for less than 300€ round trip is to miss the connection in Mannheim, so they will let you carry on to Frankfurt Airport where you can board the rich people ICE that heads to Amsterdam and actually stops in Aachen instead of being tossed out in Cologne and having to wait for an Regional "Express" that averages 50 kph. And of course the Wifi and AC are down all the time.
8:26 Coming from Wesel, a town that's located right at the middle between Duisburg and Arnhem, I can tell you that there are currently A LOT of things happening on that track. It's getting atleast one new set of rails, possibly a second by 2050, but one is planned for now. It's also getting a top speed of 230KM/h, which is still a shame because the trains going from Duisburg to Amsterdam via Arnhem are, mostly, ICE3 type trains which can go up to 320KM/h (300 in Germany sadly). Sure, 230KM/h is enough for the slowest ICE, the ICE-L, which will go into service in 2024 and is meant for the route Berlin-Amsterdam, which would make 230KM/h more than enough for those types of trains, but there's still connections from Basel to Amsterdam and from Frankfurt to Amsterdam which will simply not be able to go to top-speed!
Ah at 10:20 I see you included footage from the Wiesloch-Walldorf train station, nice! I used to use that train station all the time between Heidelberg and Karlsruhe.
I actually just got back from Germany. Spent 2 weeks travelling the country exclusively only via public transit. S and U-Bahn, ICE and RE express trains. The S-Bahn and U-Bhan are great the speed at which they run their units puts Toronto to shame. The movement of people is monumental with how fast they are. The ICE trains were cool but you can definitely tell when they are on older tracks because they bounce more. They were rather expensive as well for 2 people but the probation Bahn Card was a super help. I would highly recommend one of those if your travelling to Germany for a short period to cut off the cost of transit between cities. Or if time isn't a factor the Germany card was $49 Euro for unlimited regional express trains. Its monumental leaps ahead of the Canadian comparable. Minus the ICE trains we almost never looked at the time tables and just went to the station and a train was there to get us to our destination in good time.
32 Comments
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When mentioning NIMBYism also don't forget "Your-Local-MP" who will fight in the trenches to keep that sweet, sweet ICE stop at your local (meaning rural) station to keep your one-horse town connected to the world by hourly services to every main city in the country. Which, of course, massively increases the number of stops at any given line so you can only dream of a connection like the Zürich-Paris TGV in 4h with only three stops on the way… Luckily these cases seem to drop lately with more direct connections appearing – but still the ride from Berlin to Zürich is a real 9h nightmare…
The original ICE3 was a joint development between Siemens and Bombardier. The newer ICE3s are a Siemens Velaro variant.
I have just returned from a rail-based holiday in Germany. The regional trains were reasonably reliable (mostly within 10 minutes of schedule) but seriously overcrowded throughout the day while the EC and ICE trains were shambolic for timekeeping. Less cancellations than last year but regularly 40 to 50 minute behind schedule. Also frequent platform changes in the larger stations which is no joke when you have a suitcase as most platforms seem to be two full flights of stairs above the concourse or subway and in the circumstances with 100 people trying to change platforms there's no time to queue up for the lift.
Last gripe beware of the combined rail air ticket. I purchased a Lufthansa ticket from Frankfurt which included rail travel from Cologne. This allowed 55 minutes between the train arrival (if on-time) and the aircraft departure. After my experience of Frankfurt on the outward trip I realised this was simply unachievable but when I turned up to catch an earlier train at Cologne I was told I would have to get in touch with Lufthansa to change the ticket to ride on an earlier train. So had to fork out for one myself.
i am from ulm and its very luck for me to be frome here becuse ulm is betwen münchen and studgart we get all the intercity benefits from studgart and münchen thats funny becouse ulm is just a smaler bigger city
(sry for my bad english)
btw verry cool video about the german intercity network
How about a video of the Turkish high-speed railway network ?
Pls make a video about Stuttgart 21
Nice video, thanks. I lived in Germany and took the ICE many times. Very nice trains. Make a video about Stuttgart 21 and the tunnels from Ulm towards Stuttgart, through the "Geislinger Steige" Mountain and under the Airport into the city. This is a very challenging route but awesome when done. People will complain about the high cost, but it is actually these peoples fault, as this project was first called "Stuttgart 2010" and on the side of the main train station was a model of how it should look in the future. This was in 1990 and nobody cared! Once they actually wanted to start, all of a sudden people came out left and right with lawsuits and demonstrations against this project, just to "preserve" the old style terminus station as a through station is not seen as important and might "degrade" Stuttgart versus Munich, Hamburg and Frankfurt;-)
My small town closed its station and the closest ones are each 20 minutes away by car. One of them only has a single line that goes to the next bigger town over every small village known to man (its currently replaced by a bus they appear to have bought from som suspicious people because its the worst experience I've even had). The other one used to have an ICE go through that took you took you to Berlin but got replaced. Every way you wanna go, our need to travel to Stendal first.
I remember all my trains running late or just being cancelled at 10PM in Stendal with – 7°C and the Station Doors being left open and I wasn't even supposed to be there. The DB told me that i was free to use any train that got me home because off all the delays which was bullshit, because on the train home i got screamed at by the conductor because my ticket wasn't for this train. Thanks Lady. She only let me go because i pretended to be a pitiful girl on her way home to visit her sick mother (including me bawling my eyes out).
My journey to Berlin was even worse though. I had to get on like 3 different Regional Trains, even the Goddamm Ferkeltaxi to Rathenow which was squeezed full. And anytime i Travel in a Way which takes me to Bahnhof Uelzen i know the train will be late. Uelzen is the other closest bigger train station and i despise it with all my heart. Its the Hundertwasser Bahnhof with special design by the artist Hundertwasser. It's horrible to navigate, dark, musty, smells especially bad like pee and taking my mom in a wheelchair through there made me wanna die
yeah high speed rail system that only goes high speed 10% of the time
You forgot the new ICE L, which will be introduced next year. In Germany we jokingly say L is for langsam (slow) because the Top speed is only 230 km/h. Looks rather like a replacement for the IC trains not the ICE. It will be the first ICE train without stairs at the entrance so people in wheelchairs can easily board the train.
Germany unfortunately suffered from a long line of completely incompetent politicians in this regard.
Cool video! An underrated aspect of train travel in Germany is how laissez-faire the system is with the riders. You do not need a reservation on any German train (except sleepers) and you can hop on any ICE at the the last second. In comparison with Spain, Italy or France, which do have the more impressive HSR systems, it is much more low-key, usually cheaper, and rider-friendly. You can even ride all over Germany with Interrail in the best trains without paying one cent of surcharge for reservations! Not to mention the DB website is the best option for rail planning all over Europe, much better than any other domestic site even for their own countries. I remember being in North Portugal looking up trains on the DB app because it was so much easier than consulting the Spanish or Portuguese rail planning apps.
They are planing to build a new high speed line from Dresden to Prague
You are misrepresenting the BS that Stuttgart 21 is.
Here are a few points:
The whole station is considered just a stop, cause its not even enough for a station to pass.
Its can fit less trains (to few for the "Deutschlandtakt")
The tunnels are beeing bored through a rock that expands with mwater exposure, this may demolish half the city.
Its endaring the second largest drinking water reservoir in Europe.
For it they demolished a protected trainstation and park.
Its delayed by DECADES
Its over Budget by BILLIONS
Its reducing capacity.
The former trainstation was one of the most punctual in Germany.
Absolutely noone wants it.
Why is it beeing built anyway?
Cause moving the station underground clears building space above ground.
Less real Information here, a Frankfurt Bypass is not what passengers need and want,
It needs more tracks and platforms, because there is no space an underground ICE station is planed, ICE will get tracks complete alone and will be able to approach and leave fast, the existing historical platforms and tracks will gain capacity for more regional trainieren,
For people which do research it is called "Fernbahntunnel Frankfurt "
Also in Planning: Dresden – Prague
Sadly its not rly worth it, if we talk money
Yes! Finally! My question has been heared! Thank you for covering Stuttgart in the future! I would also be glad to provide video footage if needed! Thank you very much!
If you are early aaaaand you take the train at 2 AM, it's kinda cheap 😅
In your overview at 5:30 you are missing an important addition to the core network: Frankfurt – Hanau – Gelnhausen – Fulda – Gerstungen – Erfurt.
Frankfurt – Hanau: New ICE underground station planned in addition to the overground station plus accelerated accces through tunnels (early planning phase)
Hanau – Gelnhausen: Upgrade to 4 tracks and 230km/h (constructions recently started)
Gelnhausen – Fulda: Dedicated HS line, connecting to the Fulda – Würzburg HS line (in permission planning)
Fulda – Gerstungen: Dedicated HS line connecting the HS line Fulda – Kassel with the already upgraded line Eisenach – Erfurt (in permission planning)
Thank you for mentioning my Hometown Stuttgart ❤ I’d love to see your video about S-21 in the Future 👍
I’d say the Overground is verging on being its own special category (its purpose being to cut out the centre entirely for many commuters). The Elizabeth Line (and, if it ever gets built, the Chelney/CR2) are RER like. Perhaps controversially, I’d make the case that the Thameslink/Great Northern network is the most similar to an S-Bahn in London. You have lots of routes, mostly being piped through a single core that crosses the city centre in tunnel. It even serves two airports!
The Munich-Innsbruck Route, while indirect, is pretty efficient and not even that slow. To improve this route, instead of digging a base tunnel, it would be far simpler to just upgrade the route between Munich and Kufstein at the border of Austria. The route between Kufstein and Innsbruck is already at 220km/h.
An upgrade project for the route is already planned by Germany, even though it is delayed by NIMBYs as always
When i see the costs of train Tickets in Germany they are not competitive to a car, special when more then one person has to travel.
They get a lot of funding for the train system but they are fucking expensive and not reliable.
Good thing the hole between Munich and Frankfurt will get some upgrades (sometime in my lifetime). in 2022 I had to go from Munich to Aachen a lot and it was horrendous. Not just the delays, the never ending construction sites, but the service itself. The fastest option was to get from Munich to Aachen for less than 300€ round trip is to miss the connection in Mannheim, so they will let you carry on to Frankfurt Airport where you can board the rich people ICE that heads to Amsterdam and actually stops in Aachen instead of being tossed out in Cologne and having to wait for an Regional "Express" that averages 50 kph.
And of course the Wifi and AC are down all the time.
8:26
Coming from Wesel, a town that's located right at the middle between Duisburg and Arnhem, I can tell you that there are currently A LOT of things happening on that track.
It's getting atleast one new set of rails, possibly a second by 2050, but one is planned for now. It's also getting a top speed of 230KM/h, which is still a shame because the trains going from Duisburg to Amsterdam via Arnhem are, mostly, ICE3 type trains which can go up to 320KM/h (300 in Germany sadly). Sure, 230KM/h is enough for the slowest ICE, the ICE-L, which will go into service in 2024 and is meant for the route Berlin-Amsterdam, which would make 230KM/h more than enough for those types of trains, but there's still connections from Basel to Amsterdam and from Frankfurt to Amsterdam which will simply not be able to go to top-speed!
What about the high speed line connecting berlin and munich?
"Germanys notorious nimbiism" ouch that truth hits hard
Ah at 10:20 I see you included footage from the Wiesloch-Walldorf train station, nice! I used to use that train station all the time between Heidelberg and Karlsruhe.
I actually just got back from Germany. Spent 2 weeks travelling the country exclusively only via public transit. S and U-Bahn, ICE and RE express trains. The S-Bahn and U-Bhan are great the speed at which they run their units puts Toronto to shame. The movement of people is monumental with how fast they are. The ICE trains were cool but you can definitely tell when they are on older tracks because they bounce more. They were rather expensive as well for 2 people but the probation Bahn Card was a super help. I would highly recommend one of those if your travelling to Germany for a short period to cut off the cost of transit between cities. Or if time isn't a factor the Germany card was $49 Euro for unlimited regional express trains. Its monumental leaps ahead of the Canadian comparable. Minus the ICE trains we almost never looked at the time tables and just went to the station and a train was there to get us to our destination in good time.
You just forgot about conection between Berlin and Warsaw