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The European Freedom that’s Illegal in the USA
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49 Comments
"This is land is my land, this land is your land" …….uh, no, the land belongs to the Indians. You are just a guest… and your rent is overdue.
In Scotland, the right to roam was written into law a long time ago. Our country is beautiful, and we are rightly proud of it. It's important to us that we're able to explore it, as long as we care for it and remember that we belong to the land, and not the other way around. It baffles us that some countries restrict the peoples right to enjoy what is right there on the doorstep.
And the americans think they live in a "free" country..😉
Barbed wire had its origin in the US and the "Wild West" – they were intended to stop cattle. The first patents were filed in 1868 and 1873. Soon after it was also used in Argentina, Australia, New Zealand as well as some other colonies of the UK and in Russia. The first military use was in 1899 in the second Boer war between the British Empires and the Boer Republics (which had their origins in the Dutch colonies in South Africa).
In former times Europe used border stones to mark property, and it was considered a crime to move one of those marking stones. But that did not concern the right to roam – which was also economically important because it allowed e.g. travelling craftsmen to use the shortest route between villages, while roads (if not built originally by the Romans and where they existed at all) often followed the borders between properties (so no one had to donate more land to them than the neighbor).
I wonder how many Americans think, a Swede or German or Dutch will just walz through their backgarden, if not threatened by a shotgun. I'm German, and i would never ever do that here at home, even though I'm not threatened of getting shot. I don't need the threat of death to understand property rights. The one thing i will never understand is prohibiting me to simply walk through fields. I accept that they're yours. I'm just walking my dog or stroll along with my wife or a friend. No need for threating me with a fkn gun, Billybob! Jeeez…🤦
When people speed in their cars, they did not make driving illegal, they made speeding illegal. So the excuse to generally make something illegal, is a poor excuse.
Actually, from the point of view of most Europeans, American rarely comes around as being awfully civilized.
I'm sorry but that is just a sad fact.
For Americans to talk about ownership of lands they practically stole from the original people who roamed the lands, is pathetic to say the least.
the bulldozer taking "garbage" away wasn't. it was tearing down shelters built by the homeless which are in fact created by the economic system to keep workers in line. don't like your $5 dollars an hour, you can go sleep in the street, this from the richest country in the world.
I think the main problem resides in the culture of respect the environment. I mean, in Europe, most of people are well educated and know that one'freedom ends when others' freedom begins. That's what I don't see in our countries, not just the USA, people demands their freedom to do things, but don't respect others' one. I see people that throw trash on the streets without thinking the streets are theirs too, the responsability for keeping them clean is everybody's. Same for the nature. That's why I admire the European culture, particularly North European one. I would like to dream of a cultured population, all around the world…. aaahh, who knows?
While littering happens, it's not nearly as much of a problem as you think. Neither is there a guarantee that no trespassing is going to stop littering, yoy can throw something on private land from a publicly accessible road, or it can simply blow over, and sure, no trespassing signs don't stop all trespassing.
I agree that littering should be punished, but that's a separate matter to roaming.
With the homeless, when you don't have a roof over your head, a lot of 'garbage' might be useful to you, an old mattress can keep your body off the cold soil, a tarp can keep you dry, bags can be used to carry your stuff, or worst case, to keep your feet dry in rain or snow, heck, combustible things can be used to keep warm, a metal grate can be used as a grill, etc. A rich man's trash is often quite literally a poor man's riches. So calling it garbage is somewhat privileged, it's not like they can rent storage to keep their stuff, heck, i saw literal tents being scooped up and thrown away, that's not garbage.
It is true what they say about Norway here, in nature you can walk even if it is private, but you can of course not walk in the garden of people`s houses.
The politicians in my city tried to put up a couple of fences along a river some years ago, but they had to give up and tale them away because it seldom took more then a couple of days before people here simply cut big holes in them so it was easy to walk through.
You need a fishing card to fish in most lakes, but at the same time it is legal to fish there without it if it is necessary because of hunger, but you can only fish for your next meal, its not like you can fish 20 fish and say it was a emergency.. lol
We simply try to follow common sense and common moral, and most people know what that is without having a government or a religion to tell you what it is.
I had a laugh of England right to England`s 8%, but i honestly think the governments in US, England and France is among the most controlling countries in the world, both when it comes to them controlling other countries and their own people.
The big difference between Germany and Norway for example, because they can not camp in nature like we can, is that they only have the right to small walks. Here in Norway you can pack your things and walk in nature for a week or two if you want, and that is a huge difference. I have for example a friend that every spring packs his things go out in nature and then we don`t see him for about a month, and you can see it clearly on him every time he comes back that he is more happy, more positive and in general more healthy in mind. This also gives him more survival options in nature then us common people who usually just take a walk for a day or two. 🙂
As a Finn I get anxious just thinking about not having access to the nature. I would most likely be heavily depressed if I wouldn't have the ability to roam freely in nature where and when ever I want.
On barbed wire elsewhere – in England we have stone walls and hedgerows dating back hundreds of years, marking boundaries. We don't have vast open plains either so I guess we never needed barbed wire (not to say it isn't used – it is – but we already had enclosed spaces for sheep and cattle.
In Italy beaches (5 meters from the shoreline to be precise) and riverbanks are always publicly owned. That has not stopped people trying to walk them off and treat them as private property which can (and often has) lead to a trial
Through YouTube I' ve seen a TikTok video in which a German man wants to wander through somebody' s property with his American girlfriend. She freaks out, refuses to continue and says: " What, if we get shot" .
It’s interesting that American culture is based on freedom. From a European perspective the often appears to defend having far less freedom than much of the rest of the world
That last one… it exposes people to dangerous terrain and dangerous wild animals… uhhhhhh YEAH. that's the point. It's nature.
Swedish observation: "Reckless people" typically don't have the energy to roam, carry tents, etc. The people making use of our every-man's-right almost always act responsibly.
"Good fences makes good neighbours" is really just a rewriting of "I do not want to interact with other human beings".
As for your question about property lines, they exist here as well, and there are court battles about them as well, because there are still private property laws here.
As she said in the video, you can't just camp in someone's garden without their explicit approval, and if you build a fence into someone's area, then you can get ordered to take it down the same way you can in USA.
That popular song you mentioned, This Land Is Your Land by Woody Guthrie, actually has a fourth verse that isn't often sung today and which addresses this very issue. It was essentially a protest song.
There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;
Sign was painted, it said private property;
But on the back side it didn't say nothing;
This land was made for you and me
It might be a misconception but it seems that a lot of Americans have slimmer calves compared to Europeans. I think it's because cars are so necessary in the big land that they don't walk around as much. Anyone else noticed ot is it me?
As a kid in the U.S., I used to walk up and down the creek that ran through my backyard. As far as I know, the government owns the creek bed and some space to either side regardless if it cut through someone's property or not. Sure, there were some people that were worried about kids getting hurt, but I used to travel it to the next neighborhood over no problem. Was a good pass time during the summer and didn't need to worry about trespassing, but you do get wet in the process…
Madonna had a country estate in the UK and she went to court to stop people walking through her land because it had a public footpath running through it she lost the case because of the right to roam
In Sweden, you cannot close a beach. 100 meters from the beach must be free. You may not exclude people from land unless it is your own plot of land where the house stands.
Barbed wire was also here but is no longer used. It came here during the First World War.
Could never live in a country without the right to roam, it would take away a large part of the meaning of living. There are rules, in Sweden, for example, you have to move your tent or what you choose to camp every other day, so you cannot settle as a homeless person out in the forest. Since we are out in nature so much already as children, we also learn to take care of it, to throw away things in nature, you just don't do it, it's like bad karma, so it's like not mainly because it is also illegal, the chance of getting caught is minimal but because it is not right.
Graffiti is not always seen as littering in Europe, many cities have free walls where you can paint, some shop owners hire an artist to make a cool graffiti on their shop as marketing, then of course there is illegal graffiti too, but it is far from always the case.
In Sweden You can pick berry's and mushrooms according to Allemans Rätten (All man right's) , most waterways and lakes You have to have a fishingcard. But nowdays we have a great app for that, so that's no problem.
The land of the free prohibits the right to roam. Interesting
My opinion: trace back through history to the very first person to ever own that piece of land… that person had no right to it
In Slovenia we have very similar approach as in Scandinavia for roaming rights with little more limitations about camping, but less than in Germany. We also have the law that does not allow people to own waterline neither for sea, rivers or lakes. I find it great and I hope it will stay like that.
The more I learn about the USA, the more i feel the phrase "Land of the free" has always been a sarcastic one, not a true one.
The woman in the video mentioned "Good fences make good neighbors" as a common notion in America. It comes directly from a poem. And if you read the poem, the author was making the OPPOSITE case: that boundaries are what alienate us from one another. 'Mending Wall' by Robert Frost (1914).
And maybe we could forgive the homeless who are struggling to survive and not freeze to death for the crime of littering. It's funny: people are so quick to see the garbage and rarely see the people themselves.
so if one doesn't renovate and keep their property in good shape, they seize to own it? 😀
Littering is particularly a problem in areas without migration rights. Neither in Germany nor in Scandinavia is waste prevention a big deal
She's very begrudging about the position in England – and we also have many, many footpaths & byways and other traditional rights of way. Essentially, you can find footpaths over most land, include heavily farmed arable & livestock land. And the landowner has a legal obligation to maintain access.
One hotel in Croatia recently built a wall to block the access to the beach. Locals came with a sledgehammer and took down the wall.
Belgium loves it's barbed wire. It's like we were built from railroad, barbed wire and pigeon coops.
And I will not be visiting the US anytime soon because I get bouts of wanderlust when I've had a few to drink.
The right to roam is also largely about social responsibility. If you are on someone else's land rather it's a billionare or the government you have a social responsibility to take care of it. America though is build on distrust and a rejection of the notion of social responsibility. The right to roam does come with a certain level of public trust.
Hey, do you know the youtuber GeoWizard? If not check him out, specially the Straight line missions through Wales among others is brilliant. He attempts to walk through the entire Country in a straight line. Very entertaining and ties into this topic nicely 🙂
USA the land of the free 🤔😅
"This land is your land" is not a "patriotic" song, it's a folk song by radical folk singer Woody Guthrie that is critical of capitalist property rights. Woody was in fact blacklisted by the US House Committee on Un-American Activities along with many other left-wingers. Those parts have of course been conveniently redacted and like many other good political songs (Born in the USA comes to mind) it has been co-opted for propagandist purposes.
I love Woodie Guthrie's song recorded November 1944 This Land is Your Land! Because if you think what song means humans and corporations can nor own land, but we should respect more nature! Three Ladies are not so forgivers as we think! Ladies which I mentioned are Gaia or better known Mother Earth, Lady Justice and Lady Karma!(Sorry bad English!)😢
As a Finnish person I personally think that ugliest word in English language is 'property'.
The US is a hell hole. I BTW served in the US Army from 65-68 as I was a dual citizen. When I got out I returned to Canada . I have never regretted it. The US is poison !
Right to roam? In the US we have a reciprocal right called the right to keep a motherfucker off of your land and out of your house. The US is huge, we got lots of places to go if we want to wander. The amount I own is small, I like to keep any anyone off of it that does not have my leave to be there. Seems pretty damn common sense to me. You want to roam? You can roam anywhere you want that is not this patch that is mine.
To me it is far more wild that Europe has such weak property rights and home defense laws.
In the UK it is generally the case with a few exceptions that land between high and low tide cannot be privately owned. In addition to the right to roam England and Wales in particular have a vast network of public footpaths. Some are very ancient, dating many hundreds of years, and developed because the normal way to get to work in the countryside was to walk. My dad was a farmer and on more than one occasion walkers called at the house to tell us an animal was sick or had an accident. Responsible walkers can contribute to, as well as use the countryside. Basically these rights exist because customary law long predated statute law.
roaming around in norway: you meet people and get invited to their table
roaming around in the US: you are killed.
"the land of the free" is just a freaking joke.