Statement expected by Leo Docherty in UK parliament on Navalny

Statement expected by Leo Docherty in UK parliament on Navalny

I swear by almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to his majesty King Charles his heirs and successors according to law so help me God am am yeah I understand the old for Romford wishes to take the o to the king and

Rosen I swear by almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to his majesty King child his heirs and successors according to law so help me God Right we don’t start with questions to Secretary of State for defense V Ellen Smith number one sir good afternoon Mr Speaker the Department’s priority is to finalize entry into the Pesco military Mobility project before considering involvement in other projects however we assess that the EU standard third country terms for

Presco Pesco projects involving procurement or capability development will continue to impose a significant constraint on UK involvement Smith thank you Mr Speaker I’m grateful for the answer I I appreciate that the UK government’s attitude to Pesco is to take each project on a case-by casee basis but could I suggest that

Publishing some criteria about what that case-by casee basis assessment is based upon would be really useful because it’s obvious to the dogs in the street that Pesco is going to evolve at light speed and the UK risks missing out on a lot of really important cooperation that could

Be really beneficial so could the minister published that guidance otherwise I’ll be putting down 68 parliamentary questions to cover each of the 68 mechanisms that P has here here well Mr Speaker I I note The Honorable gentleman’s suggestion and I fear that my answer will give him encouragement to table the 68 questions

Um because I think it is right that we consider each uh opportunity within Pesco on its merits very obviously uh Pesco is a vehicle for uh increasing military Mobility around the continent is something that non-eu NATO Partners support fully in the UK is with in that but when it comes to Industrial or

Technological cooperation It won’t always be in the UK interests or in the interests of UK industry and so I think it’s right that we consider these things on a case-by Case basis flag bet thank you Mr the issue of support for you question two Minister speaker uh during his visit

To Ukraine on the 12th of January the Prime Minister signed a historic UK Ukraine agreement on security cooperation with President zalinski illustrating our long-term commitment to support Ukraine the Prime Minister has announced that the UK will provide 2.5 billion in military aid to Ukraine in 2425 a 200,000 uh 200 million pound

Increase on the previous two years to cover rapid procurement and gifting of equipment development of international capability coalitions and training through op interflex flag that I thank the minister for that response there’s clearly widespread support in this house and in the country for helping Ukraine resist Russian aggression but concerns

That president zalinski has recently identified the shortage of both arms and ammunition particularly with regard to the impass in the US Congress so what discussions has a minister had with his counterparts in the EU and other European nations to help bridge that Gap in the short term and about how you

Would deal in the longer term if the election of President Trump reduced spending on nato in general and Ukraine in particular in the longer term well Mr Speaker of course we are aware of the skepticism both amongst uh Republican presidential candidates but also uh in Congress over funding for

Ukraine that is why UK ministers the foreign secretary the Secretary of State myself prime minister um have all been in Washington to make the case for the US continuing to support Ukraine no matter what the outcome of the election now second guessing the US uh electoral system uh is probably not uh that

Sensible but it is clear that European manufacturing capacity as it is not withstanding the Fantastic efforts led by prime minister kalas and Estonia to increase manufacturing of ammunition particularly have not yet got even to half of the Target that they set and this should be a cause for all of us to

Consider how we might urgently ramp up manufacturing if the worst would come to the worst sh this like committee Jeremy Ukraine can win this war and must win this war um the provision of ammunition and Equipment the minister has touched on but Ukraine also needs hundreds of thousands of trained Personnel very much

Welcome the extension of interflex and the work that we’re doing but is that not something our allies and ourselves could be doing far more to assist them on well Mr Speaker um the rights honorable gentleman is uh right to point to the importance of the training effort

And it gives me the opportunity to reflect on this being this week being the 10-year anniversary of the Russian invasion of Crimea uh and that that event gave rise to the beginning of operation orbital uh and that since then across orbital and interflex 60,000 Ukrainian troops have been trained

Continuing to train them as individuals but increasingly as formations is undoubtedly the key to unlocking the real potential of the Ukrainian Armed Forces yeah black thank you Mr Speaker we’ve all seen the events over the last few days in Ukraine with the Russian offensive this must act as a wake up

Call to all of us this is our problem this is our fight with ukrainians to defeat Putin we need to make sure that we step up the ammunition and the arms that we’re shipping to Ukraine now we need to do that with our European partners and we need to have a plan not

Just for the short term but for the long term so we defeat Putin so what talks is the minister and the cabinet secretary having with the European allies to make sure that Ukraine wins this war well Mr Speaker these conversations happen all the time only last week the

Secretary of state was at the latest uh of the donor conferences followed by NATO defense ministers I I was in Norway a week or so beforehand having exactly these conversations with allies the right honorable gentleman is absolutely right that the sort of traditional armaments like artillery ammunition are

Important but so too increasingly our novel Precision weapon systems that the UK is very much at the Forefront of providing to our Ukrainian friends so Julia Lewis is it not time that both sides of this house came together to agree on a common policy of increasing defense expenditure so that by

Increasing our support for Ukraine we can set an example to our American Allies without whose help there is no future for peace and Security in Europe well Mr Speaker uh my colleagues on the opposition front bench know that I try not to throw gratuitous punches in

The house and I know that they are enthusiasts for military spending but their colleague the shadow chancellor has thus far declined to say that she would do anything other than the 2% uh Target on NATO spending which is not the same as the government is currently spending nor what the government

Currently intends to increase spending too so the right honorable gentleman suggestion is timely and it would be fantastic if over the course of next hour the right honorable Shadow Secretary of State were to make the same commitment as we have let’s try now then Shadow Secretary State John

Healey well Mr Speaker of course in the last Labor year of the last government we were spending 2.5% of GDP on defense a level that’s never been matched in any of the 14 Tory years since Mr Speaker uh the labor leader and I were at Munich uh like the defense secretary at the

Weekend and the urgency of more help for Ukraine ran through every discussion and everyone was also profoundly moved by Julia navalia speaking even after the news of her husband’s death at Putin’s hands this is the brutality the ukrainians are fighting this is why UK support must not

Falter so we strongly back last month’s UK Ukraine security agreement the defense secretary calls it a 100-year agreement Alliance so will the government take the necessary next step with an implementation plan for this year and future years to make sure Ukraine gets the help it needs now and for

Tomorrow well Mr Speaker whil grateful for the history lesson on what was spent under the previous labor government the commitment to match the government’s spending in a future government was conspicuously absent from the right on gentleman’s answer however back to the Collegiate Spirit within which defense questions is normally conduct himself

Himself I absolutely agree that the the Secretary of State set out in his speech for the partnership with Ukraine absolutely requires a strategic approach to be taken with very long Horizon set for what our cooperation both industrial and Military could look like Sean hey well long Horizons are fine but Ukraine

Needs more help now and I’m concerned about this 2.5 billion for Ukraine announced last month and described by the Prime Minister as the minister says as the biggest single package of Defense Aid to Ukraine since the war War began in an answer to my question last week

However the minister would not rule out using this money to cover the UK’s own operational costs at NATO bases so will he today rule that out will he today confirm that every penny and every pound of this 2.5 billion for Ukraine will go to Ukraine Mr Speaker the right honorable

Gentleman I fear has missed something over the last two years because the 2.3 billion that the government has provided in support of operations to support Ukraine has always included both the gifting in kind that takes the headlines but also operation interflex and other avenues through which we support the

Ukrainians so the fact is that next year’s spending and the year after will match exactly what we did in previous years in terms of the breadth of that contribution it’s also true Mr Speaker that both the long-term strategic Alliance that the Secretary of State set out and the the commitment year on year

To spend more than any other European Ally are not mutually exclusive we’re doing both s spers Martin do thank you Mr speaker now on the 17th of March at the minut conference uh prime minister fredericksen of the Kingdom of Denmark actually stated if you ask a Ukrainian they’re asking for ammunition now

Artillery now from the Danish side we decided to donate our entire artillery doesn’t the Secretary of State agree that or at least the minister that allies should be a little more like Denmark when it comes to recognizing the consequences of not meeting Ukraine’s needs so Mr Speaker um we’re full of

Admiration for our Danish colleagues um but the reality is that the UK has provided almost its entire Heavy Artillery capability in terms of as90 those that we’ve held beh are those that service the battle group in Estonia and the very high Readiness armored battle group similarly we’ve been uh generous

With our ammunition stocks whilst retaining those that we need for our vhr forces more than that we’ve catalyzed the production of 155 mm ammunition in the UK and even further we have been buying up as much 152 and 122 millimeter ammunition around the world as we possibly can the UK’s contribution to

The Ukrainian artillery fight is not confined to what we had within our own Ammunition stock piles it is much much bigger and amounts to hundreds of thousands of rounds to do to well I’m afraid to have to say Mr Speaker paraphase a former member the government’s response I think is waited

In the balance and found wanting so for the Czech Republic’s profound donations of artillery and shells on top of the Danish donation as well as a commitment of over 1 million from the EU I wonder if the minister and I hope he can come up to the dispatch box and B correct the

Balance and advise the house in terms of his new inv investment and it is welcome in terms of the new investment how much of that is in tactical armaments and in artillery yeah yeah so the ammunition the overseas ammunition acquisition plan from previous years remains broadly as

It was which amount to about 300,000 rounds uh bought on International markets uh and provided to Ukraine um the 155 mm uh manufacturer acceleration is subject to a different um funding package that the Secretary of State and his Ukrainian counterpart have have been working on but it’s important to note Mr

Speaker that the 200 million additional money from last year to this is focused on the provision of drones and it is those tactical drones that are proving to be most significant in terms of the impact they’re having in the battle space SC question three Mr Speaker Mr Speaker the latest fulltime

Strength of the Army is 73,5 120 the Army is continuing to work towards its Future Soldier structure 73,000 regular and 30,000 Reserve personnel there are no current there are no current plans to change this and good news Mr Speaker provisional figures suggest that January had the highest number of army applications for six

Years not Bon Q Mr Speaker media reports have suggested that white men have been actively discriminated against in Recruitment and that security checks may be relaxed due to promoting ethnic diversity within the Army a number senior military figures have purportedly warned that the pervasiveness of woke ideology and being pushed onto the Armed

Forces is a real and present threat to National Security and will give Aid and comfort to the king’s enemies will the planned review of diversity policies seek to address these concerns um well I’m very grateful for the honorable gentleman’s uh remarks I don’t recognize the situation he describes we take security extremely

Seriously and ensure all Personnel have security clearance appropriate to their job checks normally require at least 3 years UK residency but Commonwealth candidates are permitted to acrew qualifying residency while serving although they cannot take up roles and ranks which require higher levels of vetting this policy has been in place

For several years and it hasn’t changed ton Antonia thank you Mr Speaker look figes in the times last month showed that the British army will shrink to as small as 67,000 by 2026 due to to the current crisis in Recruitment and Retention as threats to the UK are increasing will the minister finally

Commit to halting these Cuts uh that he is continuing to make to the Army um well the government is sticking to 73,000 regular and 30,000 Reserve personnel as I said earlier those Figures were contained in Future Soldier published in 2021 and remains unchanged BR number four Mr Speaker St

Mr Speaker the ministry of Defense continues to stand ready to support the FCD LED effort to pursue Land Air Maritime routes to delivering urgently needed humanitarian Aid R thank you Mr Speaker many of my constituents in stoon Trent South are extremely concerned about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and want to

See much more Aid getting into Gaza this is vitally needed by the innocent civilian population in Gaza so will the Secretary of State up datas on what more is being done to get additional Roots into Gaza and particularly to get a SE rout for humanitarian Aid into those innocent

Civilians well my honorable friend will be pleased to know here that I’ve been to the region on a number of occasions visiting Israel Cyprus twice Egypt Saudi with the specific intention of trying to resolve the problem that he describes we’ve delivered 150 tons of Aid uh already but the problem is getting the

Aid into the country or into Gaza I should say uh although we’ve persuaded the Israelis to open kierum Shalom we desperately need Ash do opened as well and then we can create a humanitarian Aid route from Cyprus which we’ve discussed with the cypriots uh direct to ashdod and straight in by Kum Shalom

Andrew number five Mr Speaker Mr Speaker families are an integral part of the Armed Forces Community our commitment to the mar remains strong and reinforced through the hathorn weight review and Defense command paper and refresh the family strategy published in January 2022 set out this government’s response and my friend’s Excellence

Living in our shu’s framework for delivering more family sympathetic policies thank you Mr Speaker the families of armed forces Personnel have to put up with more separation relocation and danger to their loved ones and any other public servant and they often feel slightly disenfranchised might not know who their member of

Parliament they might fear to approach them for uh the impact that might have on their spouse or partner’s career so does he agree with me it’s incredibly important that there is public visibility on following through on the 86 recommendations the ministry of Defense accepted in full and the 20 which were accepted in

Part Mr Speaker I have slightly different numbers my friend will be interested to hear on the number of accepted I have 1006 out of 110 uh from his uh report regardless of the exact numbers I entirely agree with him about the importance of making sure that Armed Forces families uh live an accommodation

Which is decent uh that when we ask them to go and fight abroad when they come home they have good living accommodation he’ll be pleased to hear that the Steering group that he’ll be very familiar with which includes families federations and authors of my own friends Excellence report meets again on

The 28th of this month Mr Speaker with permission I would like to answer questions 6 7 12 and 9 19 together in a challenging labor market we continue to apply an array of measures to support Recruitment and Retention and refine the Armed Forces offer these include the biggest pay rise

In 20 years flexible service and an improved accommodation offer the hathor weight review has a key part to play and teams have been stood up across defense to implement all 67 recommendations working to establish a reward and incentivization architecture that will attract and retain the skills we need

Dre Mo Mr Speaker I’m great great that answer but it’s also true that the quality of forces accommodation is an important factor in both Recruitment and Retention of the Armed Forces would my right honorable friend consider giving local commanders greater agency to get small repairs done locally if the

National contractors fail to act quickly enough I absolutely agree with my honorable friend heads of establishment can access an approve funding pot to address minor maintenance works up to a maximum value of £25,000 per item and that’s extremely helpful and gets away from some of the bureaucracy that’s involved with the

Prime contractors sah Aon Mr Speaker seven experienced Personnel are leaving to five being recruited despite efforts being placed on diversity and inclusion policies some in my opinion being counterproductive in addition to capit initiatives last year there was a net loss of 310 service women to the military falling rates of retention is

Overshadowing operational effectiveness can the minister outline what he’s doing for retention I’m very grateful to my honorable friend and predecessor over the past two years defense has put service women at the heart of the development and delivery of a range of initiative as you well know knows from uniform policies provision of accessible

Sanitary products mentoring the introduction of flexible service wrap around Child Care parental leave zero tolerance to unacceptable behaviors and further measures in response to wigston Gray and my honorable friend’s report I pay tribute to those who have been driving change but it’s far from Job Done Stephen CB thank you Mr Speaker the

Armed Forces including the 14 signal regiments based in pire continue to provide fabulous career opportunities for young people so does my rable friend agree with me that now more than ever we need to encourage Army visits into schools and that the long campaign by nationalists in Wales to stop those kind

Of visits actually damages social mobility and aspirations yeah I entirely share my right arable friends enthusiasm the Armed Forces is a huge engine for social Mobility the Army achieved over 5,000 School engagement visits from ac across the United Kingdom in the last year each of the schools request the British army

Is the Public’s Army it is important it engages with the people it serves despite the best efforts of some on the left and the nationalists to which he refers L French thank you Mr Speaker the London burrow of Bexley is home to a number of excellent Cadet and Reserve

Units which te V which teach vital life skills could the minister please update the house on progress on the cadet expansion program and what work is being undertaken to strengthen the pathways into his Majesty’s Armed Forces Mr Speaker I’m very grateful of the opportunity to do so the joint

Ministry of defense and department for Education Cadet expansion program is progressing extremely well we currently have over 54,000 Cadets in school Cadet units the cadet expansion program has focused on growth in the state sector since introduction in 2012 the number of Cadet units in state schools has grown

By over 400% 268 schools some new units have also been opened in the in Independent Schools and here there has been a 12% increase I’m sure my honorable friend would join me in welcoming that transformation thank you Mr Speaker local service Personnel routinely cite to me issues in service accommodation is

A big barrier to Recruitment and Retention so I was really disappointed to hear that the government has no plans to improve the quity of the near 900 SLA accommodation bed spaces in my constituency at chick towns that currently fall into the lowest grades before the base closes will the minister

Commit to revisiting this decision to make sure we do right by all service Personnel serving on the base before it closes gentlemen is absolutely right to highlight the importance importance of service accommodation he will be aware I hope of the huge investment that government is putting in into not only

Improving the quality of service family accommodation but also service living accon accommodation our people deserve uh the best I think it’s public knowledge that they have not had the best for some considerable time uh we are absolutely committed to remedying that including for his constituents chairman M Mr speaker doesn’t the

Minister wake up in the morning sometimes and check on reality the fact of the matter is we have seven had seven Secretary of State for defense since 2010 Absolut turmoil in our armed forces and when the fact of the matter is why would people join the British army when

A government like this has run us down to 72,000 serving office serving 72 I used to campaign when you took it below a 100,000 wake up and invest in the defense of our country in a troubled World well those are interesting Reflections aren’t they Mr Speaker I

Suggest he has a word with his front bench and in particular the shadow chancellor who to date has failed to commit to the level of spending on the defense of this country that this party this side is completely committed to Andrew bridon thank you Mr Speaker the the rise of so-called woke culture

Has been infecting our society for many years and it should be unsurprising that it’s now infecting our military does the minister think that the rise of woke makes it easier or more difficult to recruit the right sort of people into our Armed Forces um well I completely reject the premise of my honorable

Friend’s uh question if he’s talking about increasing the amount of women in our Armed Forces if he’s talking about the LG the Lord eon’s review into LGBT uh in historically in our Armed Forces if he’s talking about our ambition to make our Armed Forces more reflective of

The society from which they’re drawn and which they serve then Mr Speaker I’m as guilty as charged Jim Shan Mr Speaker can I thank the minister for for his answer Minister you you and I will be aware and many others will be aware that across Northern Ireland recruitment uh to the

Servic that be the Army the RAF or the Royal Navy was always exceptional uh to ensure that that continues the TA regiments are are U at a figure and a number where they can’t go above what I would suggesting Mr Speaker is that maybe here the mod and the ministers

Should look at a possibility of increasing those numbers of PA soldiers to ensure that the recruitment levels in Northern can exceed the numbers that are already there well I’m I’m very gr for giv me the opportunity Mr Speaker paying tribute uh to people of Northern Ireland who as he says have contributed

Disproportionately to the defense of our country uh he will know uh that we’re committed to Growing our Reserve forces and of course that means Reserve forces right across our United Kingdom gentlem is Luke Pa thank you Mr Speaker 24,000 fewer troops 4,000 fewer Sailors 200 less aircraft and one in five ships

Removed the conservatives have failed our Armed Forces over the last 14 years missing their recruitment Target every year since taking power in 2010 and hollowing out our military does the minister honestly believe he can look the public in the eye and claim five more years will fix the mess that they

Have created or is it time for a fresh start oh I think uh The Honorable gentleman knows what I’m going to say in response to his question and that is to invite him to have a conversation with the shadow Chancellor to commit to the same level of spending on defense as

This as this government is committed to and is spending right now is he going to make a spending commitment here and now in the House of Commons if so I’m all is can I also suggest it is for the government not to be asking the questions it’s for the opposition da

Carol Mr Speaker please thank you Mr Speaker the rotary Wing Enterprise program SE seeks to improve aircraft availability across support solutions for Apache chinuk Merlin and Wildcat from within existing budgets it will do so by driving synergies between platforms modernizing support Solutions and pursuing delivery Focus commercial mechanisms sirine Dage

Speaker as you know fleetlands in gosport has been the home of military helicopter maintenance for over 65 years and this highly skilled engineering work is really key to leveling up the area providing much needed jobs and opportunity but does the minister agree with me that actually the mod’s rotary

Wing Enterprise new medium helicopter program actually would benefit greatly from these generations of expertise and skills right there in goport well I I know from my pre recent visit that Mar friend is a champion not only for defense in her but in particular for defense jobs she’s right

About standard Aro at fleetlands gospel which is a valued actor in the maintenance of our rotary Wing Platforms in terms of the specific Ro rotary ring Enterprise this is due to enter its detailed design this year sir as part of this it will consider wider social value including the extent to which economic

Prosperity is supported um but as this is a specific potential procurement I cannot comment and likewise on new medium helicopter we cannot comment on the role of particular companies but we hope to say more on this very soon sh Minister Maria rle speaker the government’s delayed producing information required for the

Invitation to negotiate for the new medium lift helicopter four times since September 2022 so can you explain what’s caused this 18-month delay and given the reports last week about his Department freezing Capital spending until at least the new Financial year when are the government going to get their act

Together to get this competition underway can you promise that the delay won’t push back the delivery dat for this vital capability for our forces well two things I’m pleased to say first of all we will have the announcement on the next stage in new medium helicopter very very soon and I’m

Pleased to also confirm that we’ve been clear on our spending position perhaps to Echo my honorable friend if the honorable lady wants to talk about um stuff that’s rumored in the press and we don’t have those sorts of capital spending controls she could confirm that the shadow Chancellor is going to honor

Our spending on the ministry of Defense W thank you Mr Speaker number nine if you please Mr Speaker orcus Partners continue to make very good progress on the optimal Pathway to deliver conventionally armed nuclear powered submarines to Australia and to develop the advanced capabilities required thank you Mr Speaker uh I thank

My right honorable friend for his answer orcus is a bold project uh which rightfully identifies the the greater need for cooperation in the Pacific between our great Nations however I don’t think should be limited to just defense in my own report for the 1922 Foreign Affairs policy committee we

Found that there’s not only a need but an appetite for wider scope inclusion of Canada for example uh does my honorable friend agree that orcus cannot be just about defense policy and are we re reaping the maximum benefits for Britain by consigning to this being just a defense procurement exercise I mean

Where is the fcod in all this Mr Speaker I think my friend is absolutely right to say that orcus can can and should be a program which extends Beyond The Three core Nations the UK the US and Australia uh but that was very much a matter for the pillar

Two Arrangements rather than the pillar one which the house will know uh is the nuclear powered submarine for Australia and that joint procurement uh and he’ll be pleased to hear that in I think it was November I was in the US uh making uh signing up a program of pillar two

Work which could ultimately extend to others including Canada and New Zealand so de way T sir thank you uh Mr Speaker the Royal Navy has a range of capabilities to support the engagement of landbased targets specific threat planning is considered for every deployment or contingency and measures are taken to

Reduce or mitigate those expected threats as dictated by operational priorities so Desmond What urgency is attached to the upgrading of HMS diamonds defense systems well my own friend asked an excellent question I know that there’s been a lot of interest uh following the deployment in the Red Sea and and what

The lessons are I can confirm that uh the sea Viper capability has of course been at the Forefront of this being the Navy’s weapon of choice in first shooting down of an aerial threat in more than 30 years it is a cuttingedge Wiis weapon system and I can confirm

That c will be upgraded to further enhance his capability against the more complex and evolving threats we Face including the ability to intercept missiles in their terminal phase lawence Robertson question number 11 Mr Speaker yeah thank you Mr Speaker in the year 2223 the ministry of Defense spent

25 billion p with UK industry the most recent estimate shows this supported 209,000 jobs across the country of which 47,000 were in manufacturing sir lence Robertson thank the minister for that response my chb constituency contains a lot of uh Aerospace manufacturing particularly for the defense SE sectors but those companies have long complained

To me that they can’t attract enough young people into their companies particularly to take engineering jobs the all party parliamentary Group which I’m co-chairman of has as its objective uh to entice young people into engineering or at least to consider it as a career is there anything more the

Government can do to persuade young people to consider taking up engineering opportunities which are there well my honorable friend ask excellent uh question I think it helps that we have lots of schools and young people uh in the gallery today being halterm but I can confirm that last year’s Defense command paper identifies

Skills as a priority including the shortage of engineering digital cyber stem subjects nuclear and space based skills the defense head of profession for engineering who also supports a government science and engineering head of profession has a defense youth engagement strategy that drives stem Outreach activities and the encouragement of engineering uptake in a

In individuals Age 4 to 14 sir so for number 13 Please Mr Speaker uh thank you Mr Speaker everything I had intended to say in resps theable gentleman was covered in the supplementary question two Rich Bo why was it BR May said of NATO that it existed

Amongst other things to keep the Soviet Union out and the Americans in the foreign secretary was misunderstood on a recent visit to the United States when he proposed that Congress should pass a new military aid package for Ukraine and he was rebuffed by some Republicans in the House of Representatives what can

The defense secretary do to encourage the US to maintain its commitment to Ukraine and to Nato well Mr Speaker uh again we covered this earlier but it’s an important issue the Secretary of State me other ministers from the mod and indeed from across the whole of government put our

Shoulder to the wheel whenever we are in Washington not only to impress on the US the importance of its continued commitment to Ukrainian security but also that Euro Atlantic security is integral to US security and that the US cannot simply look towards the Pacific it needs to remain engaged in the Euro

Atlantic in its own own interests as well of those of NATO allies the Press thank you Mr Speaker on my last visit to Ukraine a couple of weeks ago I had several meetings with Ukrainian government ministers who voiced their frustration and their concern about the delay in setting up joint operations

With UK defense manufacturers is there anything that can I ask my honorable friend to assure the house that he’s doing everything possible to speed this process up to allow the ukrainians to produce their own with our help to Second help in the war Mr Speaker the Secretary of State

And the minister for defense procurement have both been heavily engaged in this indeed the Minister of Defense procurement led a delegation to ke to catalyze exactly uh the idea that The Honorable gentleman um mentions number 14 Mr speaker thank you Mr Speaker the mod has already started its decarbonization

Journey in support of the UK’s Net Zero commitment at the Royal International Air 2 last year I was was pleased to sign the Defense Net a net zero Aviation Charter on behalf of mod mod working closely with our industrial Partners we are moving to cleaner and more efficient

Technology the arm is building solar farms and invested 144 million p in Battlefield electrification the Royal Navy’s cutting age catalytic systems are reducing emissions of greenhouse gases gases in its Patrol vessels up to 97% and finally Mr Speaker the irf is pioneering the use of sustainable aviation

Fuel thank you Mr Speaker it was a pleasure to attend the global charge dinner last October to see so many members of the Armed Forces from all rounds committed um to tackling the climate crisis however defense the defense select committee has described and the mod’s carbon reduction targets as insufficiently demanding Under The

Greening government commitments there are the lowest across all government will the minister ensure that the next round of CC commitments will contain more demanding targets not least to reflect the real Ambitions um for the um members of the Armed Forces on the ground to see the devastation of climate

Change here well I mean the makes uh I know she’s very passionate about this what I would stress to I’ve just listed the ways in which the individual services are taking steps to reduce their emissions but of course we have to always balance that against our overwhelming priorities Department which

Is to support the ability of armed forces to defend these islands absolutely Le uh Mr Speaker def defense is investing over 6.6 billion pound in advanced research and development working with UK industry and Academia to identify and invest in Innovative Technologies ensuring we have the capabilities we need to defeat our

Adversaries sir redward traditionally the RF has a very poor record uh when it closes its bases in Lincolnshire just walking away and leaving the rack and ruin but this time we had wonderful schemes for Raf scon scampton in terms of Defense Innovative technology such as a space port will the minister now work

With the home office and myself to try and release the BK of this space so that we can get all these exciting Technologies going the mod can’t just wash its hands of the space now that it’s passed it to the home office were supposed to have joined up

Government well I it my friend makes an important Point what I would state to him is obviously um RF SC as he knows is no longer part of Defense state it means we don’t have that formal responsib for it what I would stress to him is that we are innovating investing in innovation

In Lincolnshire including for example the significant investment into warington associated with our protector capability Patrick gr Mr Speaker number 16th every penny thank you uh Mr Speaker and I apologize the dreadn submarine program remains within overall budget and on track for the first of class HMS

Dread or to enter service in the early 2030s inflation has remained higher than expected for an extended period and has had an adverse impact on the cost forecast for the program when compared to the forecast from a year earlier as the program is in its preliminary phases

It is too early to provide cost estimates for the replacement Warhead program Patrick R speaker I think what that means is the minister doesn’t know what the total lifetime cost of trident replacement is going to be budgets and government departments and household alike are under immense pressure because

Of a rampant inflation so why does everybody else’s budget have to be under pressure but the blank check seems to be the approach to the renewal of trident it’s an extraordinary thing to say by the he he knows we will shortly be publishing before the end of the financial year our supplementary

Estimate for the defense nuclear Enterprise for the financial year but as he knows there’s a cost in not having a deterrent that that is his policy to do away with the deterrent on a unilateral basis despite all the the terrible threats we can see in the world and the

Nuclear saber rattling from Russia his policy would be abject Folly we will invest in providing that ultimate guarantee to the people United Kingdom James Gray Mr Speaker I know that the the minister and most of the house leaving aside the Scottish national uh benches would agree with me that

Continuous at se deter is absolutely central part of the defense of the Realms no question about that at all and would agree with me that we must find a way of replacing Trident within within budget and the worst possible thing that could possibly occur to Trident would be an S&P government in Scotland

Yeah I agree 100% with myal friend we now come to topal Greg Smith Sir Mr Speaker this year I visited the United States the White House in Capitol Hill to Lobby on behalf of Ukraine uh as discussed today Saudi Arabia and Egypt for the crisis in the Middle East H Miss

Diamond to thank the ship’s crew uh and also our Sovereign base aeri to thank the typhoon Pilots the Cyprus itself uh was also visited and last week I was in Brussels at NATO and Munich for the security uh conference the whole house will know that defense never sleeps and

Will wish to join me in thanking the brave men and women who made that possible Greg Smith thank you Mr Speaker can my right honorable friend update the house on progress made at the NATO defense Minister’s meeting in particular regard to support for Ukraine indeed I can alongside the NATO

Meeting was actually the Ukraine defense uh contact Group which is 52 countries all of whom support Ukraine um the big concern of course is to make sure that Ukraine both has the things it needs now but also the planning to make sure that in 2024 it can uh both sustain and push

Back the uh the the the fight against the enemy and that is why uh the work that this country does in particular in drones where I announced 200 million uh together with a 15 Nation Coalition for multinational procurement uh that’s an initiative called MPI and also welcomed

Australia at my request who’ve joined us in the international fund of Ukraine with 50 million uh for a fund which is now worth 900 million sen Secretary of State John hey Mr Speaker the agonies of the Palestinian people are extreme we all want to fight they want the fighting to

Stopped now hostages returned now Aid ramped up now and a fire that lasts permanently what is the defense secretary doing to help his Israeli counterpart accept that their threatened offensive against Rafa just cannot happen well Mr Speaker I agree with the right honorable gentleman about the seriousness of the situation and as he’s

Just heard I visited uh Israel actually just before the new year and had these conversations direct I believe that it’s both in Israel’s interest obviously gaz’s interest and the world’s interest to see uh the this immediate cessation followed by by followed by a permanent ceasefire we are doing everything that

We can to both persuade the Israelis of that necessity but also put pressure on Hass who still hold hostages uh if they were to release them this thing could finish very quickly we’re also uh helping by ensuring that uh we are working on plans for what happens in the

North of the country or sou le as well speaker carington is home to over 17 00 veterans who have and continue to provide amazing service to our great nation so could the Secretary of State please update me into what steps we are taking as a government to provide better

Support for veterans in our country I’m very grateful to my honorable friend uh since 2011 the Armed Forces Covenant and its consequentials have been the absolute lynchpin for public commitment to those who have served and it has materially improved the lived experience of the service Community the mod is responsible

For a number of services for veterans the veterans welfare service for example supports around 50,000 veterans every year and the office for Veterans Affairs coordinates across government to advance support for veterans and their families sen Minister Steve MCC thank you Mr Speaker with the number of veterans claiming welfare benefits

Rising steadily and more than 52,000 now in receipt of universal it does the minister find this a cause for celebration or concern Min uh I am a veteran um Mr Speaker I talk to Veterans all the time as does my right honorable friend uh who heads up the Office of Veterans Affairs

And I don’t recognize a picture that he has uh described uh we have since 2011 materially improved the lived experience of our veteran community and their families and we will continue to do that of that you can be absolutely sure sah Aon Mr Speaker when defense contract bids are awarded there’s a 10

To 20% waiting given to social value social value being the benefit that that contract would have to the local and wider Community could the minister clarify that this community benefit is entirely for the UK or are overseas companies and their communities considered equally to the UK so it’s a very good question my

Friend I think that distinction here uh Mr Speaker is between the cabinet office social value rules which are applied across government uh and which are irrespective and the rules that we apply as the ministry of defense for our procurements which if for example there was discussion of new medium helicopter

Earlier when that comes out as I hope it will soon it will be clear that we are we are looking to incentivize a strong commitment to the UK industrial base h l thank you very much Mr Speaker the mod recently published the findings of the inquiry into the fatal accident

Involving a skim fighting vehicle on Salsbury plane in which a young Soldier tragically lost his life one of my constituents was a witness to the accident which has inevitably had a profound impact on him the government has said that it doesn’t plan to make a formal response to the inquiry report

Which is a harrowing read but it has accepted all 52 recommendations doesn’t the minister think it requires a full and formal response from the government with the detailed action plan for adopting the 52 recommendations given the seriousness of the incident and The Wider implications please just remember

It is topic because I’ve got to get other members in Mr Speaker very simply I actually read the uh report and as she rightly points out accepted all of the findings we don’t usually uh take it further but I’ll certainly be happy to take a look at the case she raises well

Fron thank you on the subject of Recruitment and Retention on the 7th of November the chief of the general staff Patrick sumers arguably the best general of his generation told the defense committee the following and I quote we are taking 400 soldiers out of the field Army to put them alongside recruiters

Because guess what it takes a soldier to recruit a soldier never a true word was spoken so when are we finally going to sack Capital well I thank my rable friend for his his question I knew he get capital in there somewhere but he he will be familiar with engageed to recruit which

Is a program that’s currently underway uh and has having some success in getting soldiers to recruit soldiers that’s probably why as I touched upon in my earlier answer we are seeing now some extremely promising recruiting figures including in January the best figures for six years they’re just c p than you

Speaker Israel so far has ignored International appeal not to attack indiscriminately civilians and not to take steps which are are basically raising Gaza to the ground it now looks it’s going to ignore International opinion about entering Rafa so has it not now time come for us to consider not

Selling arms to Israel which can be used in these totally unacceptable ways well Mr Speaker arms uh deals and Export licenses are dealt with in the normal way but the honorable member will be interested to hear that actually there’s not very much uh arms sales in the direction of Israel that takes place

At all off the top of my head I think it was for just 42 million pound last year and it was mostly protective uh equipment late last year diesel got into the water supply at the uh trenard lines Camp up Haven in my constituency and I commend the resilience of the families

That live there and also of the mod which acted very quickly to ensure there was a temporary supply of water they’re still living on that temporary suppli so can the minister assure me that attention is being given to sorting out this problem and ensuring a permanent supply of clean water

Well I’m very grateful to my honorable friend for raising this he’s a champion of the defense community in his constituency I’m grateful for his early engagement on this um as I understand following completion of rigorous testing by the local Authority regulat they’ve confirmed the water quality at trenchard

Lines is acceptable and as I understand um it is now safe for personnel working and living there to use the main Supply but I will double check and we’ll write to him but I’m grateful for his comments on the performance of doo in this regard Jeff Smith thank you Mr speaker we’ve

Seen news today of another serious attack by the houthis on a commercial vessel in the Gulf of Aiden do ministers think that more Royal Navy ships will be will need to be deployed to the region given the ongoing threat to Merchant shipping well theable gentleman will be

Familiar with answers I gave I think last week or the week before at the spatch box where uh I said that we will always look at what’s happening in the sea in the Red Sea I’ve been there to uh see uh meet the crews myself and we’ll

Make a judgment based on uh the reality on the ground we do know and we welcome uh now the input from uh a conglomeration of EU countries who are coming to join uh Prosperity Guardian as well sir juliia Le in the debate on the Red Sea on 24th of January I asked for

Confirmation that HMS Alby and HMS bullwark would not only not be scrapped but would not be mothballed either the deputy foreign secretary with the Secretary of State alongside him uh said in response that I was absolutely right to detect the supportive view of the Secretary of State for defense however a

Journalist subsequently was told that nothing had CH Changed by the ministry of Defense so are these ships going to be mothballed or not Mr Speaker my right honorable friend can rest easy I’ve actually been down since those questions uh visited uh HMS Albi and I can confirm

That one of those ships will always be being made ready to uh sale uh and uh I think you can therefore be very relieved twist thank you Mr Speaker okay suicide rates amongst veterans under 24 years old are two to four times as high as in the civilian population but figures show

That this group is less likely to be in touch with mental health services how will the minister ensure that Young Veterans can access the support they need I’m grateful for the question and she’s been consistent in her inquiry into this matter uh she’ll be reassured to know that across the uh service

Community the rate of suicide is lower than we expect in the civilian population there is a subset within the serving population among young men where there is an excess and we’re looking very closely at that and I very much commend to her the suicide action plan that we have published which lays out

What defense is doing to drive down the suicide rate in our Armed Forces whichever figure it is is too high James Gray speak of the whole house I think would like to see a larger Army avyan Air Force than unim that particular point and centr to that must be the

Armed Force recruitment program but also the Army centralized training uh scheme will my honorable friend confirm to me that the PA which was announced last week in the press in capital spending the M will not affect those two schemes and they will continue as in as full

Blooded away as they are at the moment yeah yeah my right honorable friend would be pleased to know there is no cause the the approvals are flowing Patricia Gibson thank you Mr Speaker the Royal Navy carriers HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales entered service respectively six and seven years late

And cost more than 20 times the cost of Scotland’s fairies rocketing to over 8,000 million and plagued with problems and a lack of actual aircraft what assurances can we have that these hugely expensive carriers will provide the defense capability for which they were designed Mr Speaker I think the whole

House recognizes the irony of annp spokesman talking us to us about ships being delivered late actually I think actually the whole house were want to welcome the extraordinary work done by those on HMS Prince of WS who got the ship ready to leave uh not at 30 days

Readiness which is what they were racked for but in eight days and I would have thought congratulating the ships company be the right thing to do very shman Mr Speaker does the secr state remember that the British army used to be the biggest trainer of young men and women

In the country we produce so many skilled people when can he take us back to those barmy days Secretary State well we have been training since 2014 60,000 Ukrainian troops uh proving that we know how to get troops trained we still train extraordinary numbers and I think I’m

Right in saying when it comes to uh the the broader uh link through to uh all of the forms of uh training uh we are breaking some of those records as well we’ve going to ensure that we have a Armed Forces who are fit for the 21st century that completes questions

We now come to the Urgent question Rachel Reeves yeah to ask the chancellor of the exer if he will make a statement on the UK economy entering recession Minister thank you thank you Mr Speaker High inflation Remains the biggest barrier to growth which is why harving it is still our top

Priority thanks to decisive action supported by the government inflation has fallen from over 11% to 4% the bank of England is forecasting it will fall to around 2% by early summer in only a matter of months much faster than previously thought now it’s important Mr Speaker to put this all in context just

Over a year ago the bank of England was forecasting the longest recession in a 100 years that has not happened Mr Speaker and the British economy has proved resilient in the face of unprecedented shocks forecasters including the bank of England and the IMF agree that growth will strengthen

Over the next few years with the IMF forecasting that we will grow faster than Japan Germany France and Italy many others on average over the next 5 years wages have been higher than inflation for 6 months in a row unemployment remains very low Mr Speaker and we are backing British business by delivering

The biggest business tax cut in modern British history and rewarding work by cutting taxes for working people these are all reasons to be positive about the economy turning a corner if we stick to our plan we can be confident in seeing pressures reduced for families and in achieving healthy economic growth at the

Autumn statement we unveiled 110 growth measures including unlocking 20 billion P of business investment this includes a substantial labor market package delivering a tax cut to National Insurance for 27 million people reforming pensions extending investment zones as well the real RIS to conclude Mr Speaker to economic growth and

Prosperity in this country is the fact that the labor party has no plan for growth no plan at all whilst they may pretend to us here that they’ve abandoned their 28 billion pledge they are still committed to their damaging 2030 energy policy which they themselves indeed the leader of the opposition

Himself has said cost 28 billion all of us across this house know what that means higher taxes and lower growth with labor X cheu Rachel Reeves Mr Speaker the chancellor should be here in Parliament explaining why Britain has fallen into recession can the minister explain why he has been

Left to answer these questions and where exactly is the chancellor today the chancellor should be accountable to MPS and to our constituents and answer for his failure in this house what an insult to all those people who go to work every day and experien the reality of 14 years

Of conservative economic failure that he has simply simp L failed to turn up so let me ask the minister does he accept that the prime minister’s promise to grow the economy is now in tatters will the minister explain why the economy is now smaller than when the current prime

Minister entered 10 Downing Street does the minister accept the misery that this government has caused homeowners with their kamakazi budget leaving a typical family renewing their mortgage paying an additional £240 every single month now the chief secretary is also notable for her absence today last seen refusing or

Simply failing to recognize that their target measure of debt as a share of GDP is rising not falling following her rebuke this morning from the UK chair of the statistics Authority about misleading the public could the minister inform the house if the chief secretary will again be relying on incompetence as

Her best defense Mr Speaker it’s not good enough the whole country knows that the economy is not working for working people under the conservatives it is time for change and if the government seriously thinks that everything is fine then why don’t they take their record of failure and let the British people [Applause]

Decide thank you Mr Speaker and uh I I I thank the the shadow Chancellor for her questions but but no it’s right I’m I’m coming on to it I’m coming on to it now where she started was to uh talk about the chancellor well I am the economic secretary I’m perfectly entitled to

Answer on behalf of the department and uh and I will do so today but she but the main the main uh thrust of her remarks was uh was on growth and let me uh deal with those in detail the first point to recognize Mr speaker is indeed the international context that we all

Find ourselves in well it’s it well it happens to be true Mr Speaker and for example to describe that International context 10 EU countries were in recession in 20123 in relation to uh forecasts the OB forecasts originally that the there would be a contraction of 1.5% in the economy uh and we have

Significant outperformed that the bank of England as I have already said forecast the longest recession in 100 years we have significantly outperformed that and wages for six months in a row I think this is the sixth month where this would be the case have are higher than

Inflation which as I’ve already said we have more than hared now in relation to the chief secretary what the chief secretary was explaining is that exp well what the chief secretary was explaining is that we were and continue to meet our fiscal rule which is that

Debt will be falling in the fifth year of the forecast excluding the bank of England and that is what she’s explained and that’s what she and that’s what I am reiterating for the house now um and just to finish off Mr Speaker because they don’t like they don’t like hearing

This but they have got absolutely no plan on the economy we have been clear about our plan and the plan is starting to bear fruit with wages with cutting with cutting taxes for working people starting in January with higher business investment as a result of our full expensing put in the

Autumn statement and he doesn’t have to take it from me Mr Speaker the office for Budget responsibility said the two fiscal events in 2023 both the budget and the Autumn statement would represent the largest increase to the GDP P level that they have ever scored so what I

Would say to her and indeed the house our plan is working stick with the plan don’t throw it away with the opposite Sir John redward it is good news that unemployment has stayed Low by European standards and the economy is still generating plenty of job vacancies so

Will the government take more steps to help more people into those jobs so that we can get faster growth bring the benefit bill down and boost their incomes here I I thank my right honorable friend for his question and indeed the whole house knows that he uh

Is somewhat of an expert on uh matters in relation to the economy what I would what I would what I would say to answer his point very specifically is that the national insurance tax cut was scored at the last fiscal event the Autumn statement to significantly increase the number of

People that would be in work as a result and though I won’t of course speculate on fiscal events you know that point has been very much noted by me and the whole treasury speaker the minister spoke about resilience but the fourth quarter contraction in the economy was the

Biggest quarterly fall since early 20121 at the height of the covid pandemic so I’m not sure he’s quite right about resilience he also spoke about growth but the government told us in November growth is not forecast to exceed 2% in any year in the forecast period how modest The Minister’s Ambitions are

National debt is still approaching 100% of GDP 3 trillion the consequences of brexit are suppressing growth and this does pose a challenge to the UK government’s own fiscal targets now while it is welcome inflation has fallen prices remain high prices are not falling prices are simply going up

Slightly less steeply than they where a month or two ago it’s obvious what the economy needs is growth and the investment to generate that growth but given business investment according to the government is forecast down this year 5.6% given private dwelling investment is forecast down this year 6% flat at 0%

Next year and given General government investment is forecast down in 25 26 27 28 where is the investment for the growth going to come from very thank you Mr Speaker uh to take the honorable gentleman who I deeply respect his points One By One The Point on resilience I think that the way

How we get resilience for ordinary people and for households is to make sure that real household incomes increase and since 2010 they are up 12% in relation to business resilience that’s why we are trying now to increase with our uh full expensing regime which is revolutionary in the advanced world

With a full expensing that will enable more businesses to invest and to deal with a chronic chronic uh weakness of the British economy which is weak investment that’s why we’re doing that he mentioned growth now of course growth uh is not as high as we would like

Indeed that is the case across the whole of Europe in across the whole of the industrialized world that’s why the chance in the last fiscal event put in place 110 growth measures Mr Speaker so we are we have a plan for growth over the long term and we will deliver it the

The The Honorable member The Honorable member mentioned debt The Honorable me honorable member mentioned debt and indeed that’s why to repeat my point to the shadow Chancellor that’s why debt is falling in the fifth year in the in the fifth year of the forecast according to

Our f rule which is excluding the bank of England and that by the way was not just the fiscal Rule now it has always been the fiscal Rule and in relation to inflation yes he makes the fair point that inflation does not mean that prices are falling indeed inflation of course

Is a lower rate of increase we all know that in this house and indeed we’ve that’s why bringing down inflation is so important and the party opposite with their plan to recklessly jack up borrowing and taxes to the sake to the to the extent of 28 billion will

Increase inflation um and to finish my remarks in relation to investment just to repeat investment has been a longterm weakness of the British economy we are taking long-term measures to deal with it and I hope that in the next fiscal event in the budget we will continue in that

Thing so jaob re small thank you Mr Speaker um and may I thank my honorable friend for his distinguished Service as a voice of his Majesty’s government and refer him to what the former Chief Economist of the bank of England Andrew haldan has said today referring to a

Double Blow To The credibility of the bank of England which was late to put interest rates up and missed inflation and has been slow to reduce them hammering the economy does my old friend agree that the bank of England is no longer showing itself to be competent and its independence must be questioned

Yeah yeah uh I don’t think I will quite agree with my right onal friend but what I will say is that it’s very very important that we we leave the bank of England to to do its work respect their independent mandate but from the treasury we do what we can

To make sure that we bring inflation down and support them in that mandate and as I say the party opposites their plans whether they claim that they’ve dropped them or not their plans will lead to an increase of borrowing or an increase in taxes that will signic iFly

Damage that aend D Angela e well I think The Minister’s failing the opposition the the audition I really do I I I think um we’re not going to take lectures uh from a person about borrowing when it was 67% of GDP when we left office and it’s now nearly

100% he’s come in here and he’s claiming somehow that growth is happening but we’re actually in a recession which means that there’s no growth in fact there’s negative growth and if you look Mr Speaker GDP per capita fell in every quarter of last year meaning that everybody is getting worse off under his

Appalling stewardship of the economy isn’t it time that the minister the junior minister went back to his boss and told him it’s all over time’s up call the [Applause] General uh I thank the r honorable lady I thank the r honorable lady um but I you know it is definitely above my pay grade to call elections what I would say in relation to the points that she says precisely are the following in relation to per capita GDP statistics and that’s

An important statistic because what the point of that is to try and get a sense as to what’s happening to individuals or individual households and families what I would say to her is let me well I wish the honorable the shadow Chancellor would allow me to uh to

Respond is real household incomes which is as good a measure as any to see what is happening to individuals and families in our economy is up 12% since 2010 if you’re looking at people at the bottom of the income the income scale since the uh since 2010 the rise in the National living

Wage that comes in in April will mean that there’ll be a rise of about 30% in real terms for people on full-time minimum wages that those two statistics are examples of what’s happening to real people on the ground Rachel mlay thank you uh Mr Speaker and I thank the minister for updating the

House and he will he agree that obviously people in redit and elsewhere are concerned about negative economic news although it almost always turns out to be wrong later on but does he agree most of all that the greatest risk to my constituents in Reddit and across the

Country is a labor government who have said that they can somehow magically 28 billion pound of green growth benefits without paying for it well we all know what we paying for it it’s my constituents through extra borrowing and higher taxes he has no responsibility for the

Labor party let us move on Stella Cru thank you thank you Mr Speaker the government Minister says that the priority for the government is backing British business says it’s cutting inflation the priority being reducing the pressure on British families why then when the government or admits this measure will increase inflation when

British business is tearing its hairs out at the chaos that’s been caused by not knowing what the charge will be and who will pay it with less than 10 weeks to go and British consumers will find it causes food shortages and an increase in food prices why on Earth is this

Government going ahead with the brexit Border tax and will he here and now commit to canceling it so that we can stop the inflationary measure yes or no I Thank The Honorable ladies focus on inflation indeed she’s right inflation is absolutely critical um and bringing it down is an absolute Focus for the

Government and uh the house has heard her her point in relation to uh the European Union um but what I would add is simply to say that we have a clear plan for bringing down inflation that we have carried out that will continue to carry out and she’s got to ask her front

Bench why they don’t have one sir Edward Le uh for too long too many people in the treasury not my honorable friend who’s an excellent Minister but too many too many people there have thought the best way to grow the economy was to fill the country with more and more people so

Will the government now commit itself or recommit itself to insisting that if you come here to work you should earn average UK earnings of around £33,000 a year no shortage schemes no exemption for care workers or the NHS that in those sectors we pay proper wag is we

Get people off benefit there’s too many people on benefit dragging down our economy we cut seriously Mass legal migration and by the way if there is a general election we give something for our people to vote for the my honorable friend makes a uh an important point about migration and I

Completely agree with him that what we need to see is an economy where we get higher earnings for British people that does not mean we have an economy where we import too many people and keep earnings down that’s why we’ve been focusing on raising uh the national

Living wage that’s why uh we’re focusing on making sure that ordinary household incomes as I’ve already explained are going to go up as a result of this government’s policies uh and what is also worth uh what is also worth pointing out to the house is that in relation to for example last year’s

Immigration numbers obviously there were certain individual things that happened last year in particular um people fleeing from Ukraine in particular people from Hong Kong as well that meant the last year’s particularly High immigration numbers but the broad thrust of what he says is correct we want a

High skill High wage economy Emma thank you Mr Speaker I don’t know if the minister realizes quite how infuriating people find watching his government tell them that everything is fine and it’s all going really well and there’s nothing to see here when what they’re experiencing every day is the fact that

They’re feeling poorer and small businesses are closing so if the Prime Minister and Chancellor can’t face reality how on Earth can anyone trust them to solve the economic crisis their government created I’d like to be clear with the honorable lady who I’ve got a huge

Amount of time for and is a very good Member of Parliament that it is not it is not our position that everything is okay it is our position that we have been in a very challenging International context there’s been a once in 100-year pandemic there was an energy crisis

Caused by Putin’s war in the Ukraine and this government has done everything we possibly can to build an economy for growth that’s what we’re doing and I hope to get her support in us doing so so Desmond way what distinguishes this recession is the 800 jobs for every day

That have been created since this government came to power in 2010 the very antithesis of anything ever achieved by labor of government which has always left unemployment higher than it found it isn’t it it is Mr Speaker and I would add something else if you look at something

For example like a statistic such as home repossessions much higher when there was a recession when the last when the labor party was in office in 20089 comparison with our record now unemployment now much lower through Unemployment now much lower than in the recession that we saw under the labor

Government in 20089 and our record though we are in challenging times we the economy is turning a corner our record does compare very favorably with theirs may now the chancellor said last May that he was comfortable with the prospect of a recession and now that my constituents in Selby and ay are

Suffering under that recession’s effect would the minister chalk it up as a job well done he’ll do well this thing that what what I would say is there is nobody on this side of the house who welcomes adverse economic situation for anybody that’s why we are doing everything we

Can straining every senu to grow the economy and that’s why all the measures that I’ve laid out so far will continue and they are put at risk I’m afraid by his front bench being in office the kaker thank you Mr Speaker before I came into this house I was actually a

Director of a quite a large Retail Group in north norol and a point that absolutely nobody has made is that in the last quarter of the Year beet Kieran Debbie Elgen Fergus and Garrett six major storms and floods that the country saw in the previous year how many were

There absolutely none at all so can the economic centry tell everybody of course you are not going to have an economy functioning properly when they are in a grip of storms and floods every fortnite and we are not in a recession the more we talk it up the more we will be [Applause]

I I thank the I thank my honorable friend for that and um I would say that large retail groups in norfolk’s loss is The house’s game um the the the point he makes about International uh the international context however is a really serious and important one because though The

Honorable th though The Honorable members opposite don’t like to hear it if you face if if one faces a once in 100-year pandemic and Putin’s illegal war in Ukraine that sees energy energy prices Skyrocket that will have adverse impacts on the economy the country understands that the house

Understands that and the nebor front bench should also understand that this recession is a direct result by the choices that this government has made years of potential for growth have been missed and the government has particularly failed to capitalize on the green transition green investment will

Be worth a trillion um by 2030 globally including half a million jobs in this country when will the government bring forward a green investment program to match the one in the US or in Europe here I Thank The Honorable lady for that point the first point I make to is that

Our when you look at our record on decarbonization it beats anywhere else in the G7 so we’ve got no uh you know we don’t take lessons from the United States or any other country in that regard but in relation to the green investment plan by 2030 that she

Mentions I would ask her to direct you know she should direct her eye at at the labor front bench for not being clear as to what their plan actually is the the leader of the opposition says that well it’s important because this this politics is about a contest of ideas Mr

Speaker as indeed it is as about a contest um between two parties and if the party opposite believes that they can spend an extra 28 billion and without having an impact of taxes and borrowing then they are not they are trying to pull the wool over the eyes of

The British people thaning forward thank you uh Mr Speaker the past couple of years have been very difficult economically and I certainly do not treat the state of our economy as the giggle Feast that the labor members seem to be having today over the past few weeks I’ve met many businesses in my

Constituency large and small and a number of them have told me that they feel that the conditions are getting better that demand is growing and orders are coming back constituents have also told me that they have noticed food prices dropping in our supermarkets does the minister agree with me that the most

Damaging thing that could happen to our economy now would be if politicians on the benches opposite continue to talk our economy down I thank I thank my right honorable gentleman and indeed she’s correct forgive me I thank the right honorable lady uh indeed indeed she is correct

That things are starting to get better for many many people across the country indeed small businesses because inflation is now down below 4% we’ve more than half inflation we think that in the coming months it will go to 2% the Target and of course once it hits

That Target we hope that interest rates will start coming down which will make a big big difference to Ordinary People up and down this country so Steven Tims Mr Speaker I applaud The Minister’s willingness to take on this unenviable assignment unlike his right honorable friends the international context that

He’s referred to is that Japan and UK are the only G7 countries in recession inflation that he’s referred to is the highest in the UK the whole of the G7 why is it that the UK economy is doing so much worse than comparable economies elsewhere the right honorable

Gentleman’s uh point is an interesting one but I would say the following when when our economy entered difficult times is different is at a different point in the cycle to when certain other economies did so really to assess fully the performance of all economies we have to wait for the end of

This whole period to assess it so I wouldn’t prejudge exactly at this stage and what I would also say to him is simply that when we are in the difficulties that we’re in they have affected absolutely every single economy the nature of different economies affects them at different times but we

Are putting in place comprehensive growth measures comprehensive measures to bring inflation down I would also note that interest rates are roughly midle of the pack in the UK compared with other jurisdictions of comparable of countries of a comparable size but indeed we’ll keep all of this under

Review and that the next fiscal event uh we will can take further measures to increase our potential growth rate over the long term Alexander staff thank you very much indeed M speaker does the minister welcome the news the the South yor mayor has finally recognized the economic importance of donca airport and

At last starting to use the powers given to him to get that airport up and running again in start of that process but does he agree with me it’s taken far too long it’s taken years since the airport closed and the South the May should have used those Powers years ago

Rather than waiting 9 months up until 9 weeks until he’s reelected I Thank The Honorable gentleman for pointing out once again what a brilliant Champion he is for his constituency and I’m sure his constituents have heard that comment and will continue and he will continue to make that point so Christopher Brian

Thank you Mr Speaker lordy lordy I mean it really is it it’s like listening to the Red Queen in Alice Through the Looking Glass who invented six impossible things before breakfast how on Earth can we have confidence in what the minister is saying considering that the UK statistics Authority has had to

Tell off the chief secretary to the treasury for um for saying that uh for making false claims about tax cuts um when Evan Davis had to school her um at length and she refused even to understand I think by the end how wrong she was about debt falling as a

Percentage of GDP when it’s going up and when he himself actually said the NHS is 42 to 43% of everything the government spends when it’s only 15% can you just confirm one fact these two years will’ll see the biggest fall in living standards since records began

And that’s why people are going to vote them out isn’t it I’ve already explained uh the chief secretary’s comments in relation to my own I was referring to current spending um not overall spending and I clarified that as well but look there has been difficulties for so so many millions of

People across the country and I’ve never sought to minimize that from this position or any other position in the house as the right of mod gentleman knows but we have faced once in generation once in hundredy year challenges that this government has faced and taken the right action to deal

With uh cost of living support package over 100 billion pound to the tune of over £3,700 per person we are we have dealt with these challenges and we’ve got a plan now to grow the economy our way grow our way out of and I’m afraid the members opposite in the front bench

Opposite does not have that sort of plan and that’s why I will not make the assumption that he makes about the election Scott Bon you Mr Speaker a number of those who are are on long-term sickness benefits in Blackpool has increased fourfold over the last few decades this represents an enormous loss

Of potential and is also hurting economic growth and productivity the government’s proposed reforms in this area are to be welcome but rather delaying them until next year what’s preventing the government bringing those in this year uh I I will uh I will take that point away but what I would say is of

Course the next financial year I think is what he’s referring to and indeed at the next at the next fiscal event the budget uh the chancellor will will bear what he said in mind is thank you Mr Speaker 14 years of Services mismanagement of the economy having disastrous impacts on working

People for example musicians are waiting months to be paid because hmrc is failing to produce A1 forms on time for musicians touring to Europe the trade body live told me that in one case 26 musicians performers and sound Engineers had not been paid over three months

After their tour to Spain due to delays in processing A1 forms even worse in response to written questions I’ve been told that service standards for these forms will not be met by h my SE until at least April 2024 does this Minister agree that these delays are totally unacceptable particularly when our

Musicians are having to cope already with a challenging Financial landscape made worse now by news session I Thank The Honorable lady for her point and I I agree that we need to speed up the processing of A1 forms as she has described and I’m sure that uh

The treasury has heard that and indeed I’ll make sure that my ministerial colleagues also take what she said very seriously indeed there’s several Roberts and whatever spin the government puts on it forecast show that the go the economy is now officially entered recession but the reality out there for

People is that they’ve been suffering grinding economic pressure for years average energy bills are 59% higher than they were in 2022 and over 600,000 Welsh households are in fuel poverty meanwhile profits of energy companies such as British gas have increased tfold to 750 million pounds this is The Minister’s

Chance to make a difference to every household talking about the next fiscal event will he act to extend and bring back back date even the windfall tax on energy companies which are presently profiteering from households everywhere here the The Honorable lady is is right that many people have have had very

Challenging times over the last couple of years but what I would say to her and I would correct something I previously said of the house Mr Speaker is that the the increase to real household income since 2010 is actually 8% and the increase to GDP per capita is 12% I want

To put that on the record and in relation to taxes uh I can’t speculate about taxes at the next fiscal event Mr Speaker the forecast says that uh debt is going to be higher than it currently is in 5 years time is that a reasonable time to be talking about tax

Cuts and doing so doesn’t that suggest that the government learned nothing from the budget of September 2023 2022 I would assure The Honorable gentleman that this Chancellor uh and this government is very different to the one in September uh 2022 that he refers and in relation to debt I repeat the

Point that we are keeping to our fiscal rule which is and has always been that debt will be falling in the fifth year of the forecast falling once you exclud the bank of England that is has always been our position and it will continue to be the

Case the minister made no mention of the importance to the UK treasury of North Sea oil and indeed the danger to the Scottish economy of the closure of brinch mouse Refinery given that the UK treasury received 8 billion in revenues for the from the North Sea last year and

Is expected to receive 6.1 billion in revenues this year can they not find the tens of millions not tens of billions that they’ll get from revenue to ensure that the hydro cracker can be restarted and the profitability of the refinery increased threefold here The Honorable gentleman’s specific

Point I will take away and we’ll make I’ll make sure that the treasury gets back to him but the broader point about offshore uh oil and gas in the North Sea is a very important one it is absolutely critical that we support that sector and it is absolutely critical that we not

Just by the way for tax revenues but for the livelihoods and prosperity of the United Kingdom and indeed this government stands full Square behind the oil and gas sector Deb Abrahams thank you Mr Speaker Mr Speaker there’s overwhelming evidence that the lower the economic inequalities the higher economic growth

Is but we know from the on that between 2021 and 2022 the poorest fifth of households uh had their disposable income shrink by 3.4% while the richest fifth of households had their uh disposable in uh income increased by corresponding 3.3% and this reflected the last 10 years uh before that so what assessment

Has the minister or the chancellor uh undertaken to estimate the impacts of these increasing inequalities on our shrinking growth in relation to people at the bottom end of the income scale it’s really important that since 20 the house knows that since 2010 people on full-time National living

W which we’re which we’re doing the biggest increase for which will come in in April of this year will be 30% better off than they were in 2010 Charlotte nittles thank you Mr Speaker news that the UK is officially in recession comes as no surprise to my constituents in Warrington North who

Have been battered by this Tory cost of living crisis food inflation is still double the headline rate of inflation something that is not only affecting the price of the weekly shop but having a huge hugely negative effect on my local pub and Hospitality sector with many businesses on the brink instead of the

Fantasy land spinning that everything is going fine what measures will they actually bring in to bring food inflation down inflation and I’ve said it many times in this dispatch box this afternoon is absolute Target for this government to make sure we continue to bring it down and indeed in the coming

Months we expect it to get to 2 % but in relation to food inflation specifically one thing that we are doing is by bringing in at the last fiscal event full expensing which will enable the manufacturers of food and supermarkets and others to invest to hugely increase their investment it completely Nets off

Against their tax so 100% investment that gets Nets off that gets netted off the impact of that will be increased investment that will reduce their cost that will reduce the cost of food in our shops and so that’s the sort of measure amongst many others that’s the sort of

Measure that we’re putting in place to reduce food inflation thank you Mr Speaker Mr Speaker the Prime Minister said he was going to grow the economy and it he’s obviously failed we’re now in recession and in my constituency families and small businesses are under severe pressure can the minister possibly

Explain how he’s going to address his very serious problems all I would say to The Honorable gentleman is that we are in a very challenging International context we have performed better than the international forecasters we have high high inflation which really bedeviled this economy a couple of years ago we have brought down

More with more than half and then we have a plan to grow our way out of it as indeed shown by the last fiscal event shown by the last fiscal event where we unveiled over aund I think 110 growth measures that is our plan the labor opposition doesn’t have a plan and we

Will see if if this country sticks with our plan we will grow our economy uh significantly over the coming months and years Patrick ready he keeps trying to hide behind uh the war in Ukraine and uh the impact of the pandemic but the reality is that those are affecting

Every country in the world the exacerbating Factor the thing that has led most to economic decline to massive labor shortages excuse me into rampant inflation here in the UK will he not admit is brexit uh no I would not Mr Speaker Dave D Johnson the econom is in

Recession and the consequences for the public finances are not the fault of those people like the infected and affected uh through the uh contaminated blood Scandal the largest treatment disaster in the NHS so can the Minister just confirm as I was hoping to ask the chancellor whether money has already

Been ring Fen to pay compensation to those people as set out in the final recommendations on compensation by SB land staff in April 2023 I believe at the last treasury questions The Honorable lady asked a similar question of the chancellor and the chancellor responded by saying that

He is absolutely clear about the need to compensate people in the way that uh The Honorable lady described and uh he will update the house in due course and indeed update her in due course further details in response to that Griffith thank you Mr Speaker well the prime minister’s absolutely failed to get

Growth and industry has completely lost confidence in this government with projects canceled hs2 canceled uh schools of the future canceled hospitals never built an absolute failure to bring down high energy prices no wonder business investment forecast is down so with the US and EU incentivizing investment what does he now going to do

To get the investment we need in the green manufacturing industries of the future what we’ve done to increase investment Mr Speaker is by bringing in full expensing at the last fiscal event which should represent an increase of4 billion pounds over the forecast period of investment dealing with the chronic

Weakness of our economy over Generations that’s what we’re going to do to increase investment and in relation to uh green investment in particular what we are not doing is having a huge unfunded 28 billion plan or maybe now it isn’t their plan maybe it’s a secret plan or maybe they

Maybe they’ve stop their plan but plan that the labor front bench has we have a responsible costed plan to increase investment they don’t have one wait for thank you Mr Speaker let’s try this again public sector net debt is set to rise from 89% of GDP this year to 92.8%

Of GDP in 28 29 that’s according to the most recent OB forecast now in case the minister doesn’t understand that number is higher than today uh so the Prime Minister promised to reduce that it’s increasing the plan isn’t working is it what the prime minister is committed

To doing and indeed the whole government is committed to doing is to reduce debt as we get to the end of this economic period this forecast period which is what we are doing no just it matters thank you Mr Speaker I do think The Minister’s Rosie picture of the economy

It shows a complete lack of awareness of what is actually going on in the country and and his claim the labor party somehow risked the growth and it’s his own party that’s just took the country into recession shows a complete lack of self-awareness as well and that’s number

Of this we are going into recession and yet the chancellor is nowhere to be seen I would have thought this was important enough for him to be here today to answer questions but my question to uh the minister is given growing the economy is yet another Pledge of the

Prime Ministers that hasn’t been met who does he think should carry the can for this failure is it the prime minister or is it the chancellor his criticism about my self-awareness I’ll just have to take on the chin Mr Speaker but it it the broader point that is that he’s making

Is a serious one which is whether this me or this government somehow is light-hearted or thinks that everything is absolutely fantastic around the economy it is not that is why we’ve taken the measures that we have that is why we are red we are cutting tax for working people beginning in January that

Is why we’re increasing business investment that is why we had an over a 100 billion pounds cost of living support package because we know how much many people in this Ordinary People are suffering in this country that is why we are trying to grow our economy overall because that will result in higher

Prosperity for the country and more money for our Public Services that’s all all put at risk Mr Speaker by the party opposite D thank you Mr Speaker the government is failing an 81y old constituent has said to me he can’t ever remember the economy and living standards being this bad can the

Minister not see that under his government Britain is worse off I I I don’t agree with the honorable lady uh I won’t repeat everything I just said uh to the response to the last question but I say that under this government and this treasury there is a

Plan for growth that we are sticking to and that is all put at risk with the party oppos thank you Mr Speaker the office for Budget responsibility assessed Boris Johnson’s trade and cooperation agreement at the beginning of last year the trading relationship between the UK

And the EU is set out in the TCA is said by the office for Budget responsibility to have reduced longrun productivity by 4% why does he think that is well I I I would say to The Honorable gentleman that the trade and cooperation agreement is something that we built on

With the Windsor framework it’s something that the opposition doesn’t propose to change and indeed is fundamental to our stability in relation with our relationship with the European Union that I don’t think at this time the country would be uh would be would benefit from unpicking once again

Mr Speaker can I thank the minister very much for all of his answers they weren’t easy uh the office for National statistics have revealed that there’s been a .3% decline in GDP between October and December last year and given that the strength of the economy was and

Still is one of the prime minister’s pleasure uh pledges what steps is the minister taking to reverse this Decline and to reins confidence back in the government economic plans the steps we are taking are I’ve I’ve already laid out um in this session so far but I will add one

Thing which is to say that there is a critical need to make sure that all the regions of our country benefit from the steps that we are taking it’s one of the reasons why we’ve put so much effort and focus into investment zones over the last couple of years we hope that these

Investment zones are going to continue to increase growth in the economy but not just increase growth at a macro level increase them for people in all of the regions of this country particularly Northern Ireland as and other regions that have in the past maybe not benefited from the growth of this

Country and it’s something that regally we are very committed to strengthening that completes the Urgent question we now come to the statement on the post office secretary of state with your permission Mr Speaker I wish to make a statement on post office governance and Horizon compensation schemes Mr Speaker several serious

Allegations were made against the government my department and its officials by Henry ston the former chair of the post office over the weekend these allegations are completely false and I would like to make a statement to the house so that honorable members and the British public know the truth about

What exactly what has happened I would like to address three specific claims that Mrs ston made in his Sunday Times interview claims which are patently untrue first Mr storton alleges that I refuse to apologize to him after he learned of his dismissal from Sky News

That was not the case in the call he referenced I made it abundantly clear that I disapproved of the media breaking any aspect of this story and out of respect for Henry st’s reputation I went to Great pains to make my concerns about his conduct private in fact in my

Interviews with the Press I repeatedly said that I refused to carry out HR in public that is why it is so disappointing that he’s chosen to spread a series of falsehoods provide madeup anecdotes to journalists and leak discussions held in confidence all of this merely confirms in my mind that I

Made the correct decision in dismissing him second Mr ston claimed I told him that someone’s got to take the wp for the Horizon Scandal and that was the reason for his dismissal that was not the reason at all I dismissed him because there were serious concerns about his behavior as chair including

Those raised from other directors on the board my department found significant governance issues for example with the recruitment of a new senior Independence director to the post office board a public appointment process was underway but Mr ston apparently wanted to bypass it appointing someone from with within the existing board without due process

He failed to properly consult the post office board on the proposal he failed to hold the required nominations committee most importantly he failed to consult the government as a shareholder which the company was required to do I know that honorable members will agree with me that such a Cavalier approach to

Governance was the last thing we needed in the post office given its historic failings I should also inform the house that while he was in post a formal investigation was launched into allegations made regarding Mr Stan’s conduct this included serious matters such as bullying concerns were brought to my Department’s attention about Mr

St’s willingness to cooperate with that investigation so it is right that the British public know the facts behind this case and what was said in the phone call where I dismissed Mr ston officials from my department were on the line it was minuted and the readout was sent

After it took place today I am depositing a copy of that readout in both libraries of the house so the honorable members and the public can see the truth personal information relating to other post office employees in those minutes have been redacted it is for all of these reasons that an interim chair

Will be appointed shortly and I will of course update the house when we have further details finally Mr Speaker Mr ston claimed that when he was first appointed as chair of the post office he was told by a senior civil servant to stall on paying compensation there is no

Evidence what ever that this is true in fact on becoming post office chair Mr ston received a letter from the bay permanent secretary Sarah mumi on the 9th of December 2022 it welcomed him to his role making it crystal clear that successfully reaching settlements with victims of the post office Scandal

Should be one of his highest priorities that letter is in the public domain the words are there in black and white and copies of the correspondence will be placed in the libraries of both houses the reality is that my department has done everything it can to speed up compensation payments for victims we’ve

Already made payments totaling £160 million across all three compensation schemes that includes our announcement last Autumn of the optional £600,000 fixed sum award for those who’ been wrong wrongfully convicted it’s the strongest reputation Mr Speaker of those in this house who would claim that we only acted after the ITV drama Mr Bates

Versus the post office British people should know that a dedicated team of ministers and civil servants have been working around the clock for many months to hasten the pursuit of justice and bring Swift Fair address to all those affected to that end I am pleased that all 2,417 postmasters who claimed through

The original Horizon shortfall scheme have now had offers of compensation and the post office is dealing promptly with late applications in cases where the initial offer has not been accepted my department has also established the Horizon compensation unit to ensure that money gets to the right people without a

Moment’s delay and we announced this Autumn an additional £150 million to the post office specifically to help them meet the cost of participating in the post office Horizon inquiry and deliver compensation to postmasters in all we’ve committed around1 billion to ensure wronged postmasters can be fully and fairly compensated and we are taking

Unprecedented steps with the forthcoming legislation to quash convictions of postmasters affected by the Horizon scandal in short Mr Speaker we are putting our money where our mouth is and our shoulders to the wheel in ensuring that Justice is done it is not fair on the victims of this Scandal which has

Already ruined so many lives and livelihoods to claim as Mr Thon has done that this is being dragged out a second longer than it ought to be for Henry ston to suggest otherwise for whatever personal motives is a disgrace and it risks damaging confidence in the compensation schemes which ministers and

Civil servants are working so hard to deliver I would hope that most people reading the interview in yesterday’s Sun Sunday times would see it it for what it was a blatant attempt to seek revenge following dismissal Mr Speaker I must say that I regret the way in which these events have

Unfolded I did everything we did everything we could to manage this dismissal in a dignified way for Mr ston and others however I will not hesitate to defend myself and more importantly my officials who cannot respond directly to these baseless attacks right now the post office’s number one priority must

Be delivering compensation to postmasters who have not already been compensated those that fell victim to a 4y it system they implemented and which they turned a blind eye to when Brave whistleblowers like Alan Bates sounded the alarm we said that the government would leave no stone unturned in

Uncovering the truth behind the Horizon scandal in pursuing Justin for the victims and their families we are delivering on that promise while looking for any further possible steps we can take so full and final settlement uh Claims can be reached as quickly as possible it is right that we reflect too

On the cultural practices at the post office which allowed the Horizon Scandal to happen in the first place a culture which let those in the highest ranks of the organization arbitrarily dismiss the very real concerns of the sub postmasters who are the lifeblood of their business and pillars of the local

Community while the post office may have failed to stand by its postmasters in the past we are ensuring that they do everything they can to Champion them today fostering an environment that respects their employees and respects their customers that is how we will rebuild trust and ensure that the

British cup public can have confidence in our post office now and in the future I commend this statement to the house and Secretary of State Jonathan Reynolds thank you Mr Speaker I firmly agree that the revelations in the Sunday Times at the weekend could not be more

Serious in particular the claim that the post office was instructed to deliberately go slow on compensation payments to sub postmasters in order to push the financial liability into the next Parliament if true would be a further outr rageous insult to a scandal that has already rocked faith in the fairness of the British

State it cannot be allowed to stand if it is the case and if it is not it must be shown to be false in no uncertain terms yet we do now have two completely contrasting accounts one from the former chair of the post office and one from

The Secretary of State and only one of these accounts can be the truth and I hope we’re all in agreement that Parliament is the correct place for these matters to be raised and clarified because what we need now is transparency and scrutiny so can I ask the secretary

Of state will she categorically state that the post office was at no point to to delay compensation payments by either an official or a minister from any government department and at no point was it alluded to that a delay would be of benefit to the treasury will there now be a cabinet

Office investigation to ensure that no such instruction or inference was given at any point crucially is the 1 billion pounds figure of compensation which the Secretary of State quite helpfully just repeated already allocated and sat in the Department of Business and trades accounts ready to be paid if it is not

Will we see compensation payments itemized specifically in the upcoming budget the secretary of state will also understand that following the story at the weekend victims of other scandals especially contaminated blood now feel that they need to ask the question question as to whether they have been the victims of deliberate inaction can

The government provide assurances that no such obstruction has been placed on any payments of that kind and if so what is the delay with some of these cases and in the full interest of transparency and to fully ascertain the veracity of any allegations for sub postmasters and

The general public will she publish all relevant correspondents and minutes of meetings between the department the treasury ukg and the post office during this time and finally when can we expect the legislation on exonerations that was promised by the Prime Minister I cannot stress enough how the

Last thing that was needed in this Scandal was any further allegations of coverups or obfuscation at the very top of government people’s faith in government already damaged from scandals like hillsbor and Bloody Sunday and wind Rush is hanging by a thread and this miscarriage of justice has shown the

Devastation that can occur when institutions are allowed to operate without oversight or are shrouded by secrecy so we should all agree that that secrecy must end and the full sunlight of public scrutiny brought to bear and if everything the secretary of state has told us today is correct surely there

Will be no objection to that happening in F uh thank you Mr Speaker and I would like to very much uh welcome the tone that the shadow franman spokesman has taken on this I know that there are often uh tendencies for political Point scoring but I think we both agree that

This is very much about the postmasters and that is why I made sure that I was at this dispatch box so the people would know the truth that is what builds um that is what builds trust so he asked if I would categorically state that no uh

Instruction was given to uh delay to delay payments yes I can we have no evidence whatsoever uh that any official said this and actually if there if if some s such a thing was said it is for Mr ston himself to bring the evidence it’s very hard to refute a negative

People just making wild baseless accusations and then demanding proof that they didn’t happen um are Mischief making in uh in my view so as far as I have seen and all the evidence points to the fact that no one made this claim but also I think it’s important to look at

Whether it would even make sense to do so there would be no benefit whatsoever of us delaying compensation this does not have any significant impact on revenues whatsoever it would be a mad thing to even suggest and the compensation scheme uh which uh Mr ston oversaw has actually been

Completed my understanding is 100% of payments have been made so clearly no instruction was given and he mentions the infected blood inquiry I think that this is a good example of how people lose faith in the system because of misinformation that is put out there and

That is why I’m here to uh correct the record he asked about the billion pounds uh allocation we give monthly reports that show exactly what payments are being made and he also asked about whether we would be publishing correspondence uh no we will not be publishing in full all correspondence

Between departments and uh Uki and the post office that is because we set up the statutory inquiry that will examine those important issues relating to the Horizon Scandal and examine current governance arrangements so we are fully cooperating with the inquiry but the inquiry is was set up specifically to

Look at that by Parliament um and in addition to the readout of the true content of my telephone call with Mr ston we will uh consider publishing correspondence between departments and Mrs thoron in accordance with Freedom of Information rules so that uh people will know exactly what happened uh contrary

To the account that he has given he asked about legislation that is something we’re actively working on and I am expecting uh that we will be able to do this imminently Paul SK thank you Mr Speaker when I was postal affairs minister the officials in my team didn’t

Just share my drive to uh to get the money out of the door the lifechanging money for postmasters but they actually were energized themselves empowered to be able to do so I cannot believe for a minute that just a few months later they would be doing and thinking polar

Opposite and they clearly cannot defend themselves in public so can my right horable friend confirm that these conversations did not happen about colluding to slow down conver conversation and it’s really important that we double down and make sure we do get more money out of the door as soon

As possible um uh first of all I wanted to pay tribute to my right honorable friend for all the f fantastic he did as postal affairs minister and I can confirm that my officials have looked through all of the correspondents all the minutes in the conversations that Mr

Suon has had with the department they have found absolutely nothing and in the call that he had with me he did not raise this if this was something that officials had said to him surely he would have mentioned it to ministers either myself or the postal affairs

Minister the fact that he did not do so shows that this is quite likely something that he is making up SNP spokesperson Marian fellow thank you madam Deputy speaker Madam Deputy speaker I’m at a loss today another Monday another post office Scandal and I really I I’ve tried very

Hard to pull together my thoughts on what the statement says what’s been said in the times and what has also been said in this place only less than two weeks ago when I did a a backbench business committee debate on culture and of post office management

Um I’d like to ask uh the Secretary of State a couple of well few questions um Secretary of State can you place on the record whether or not Nick Reed wrote to the Justice secretary last month defending uh these convictions saying that some of them were guilty that’s a

Really serious allegation and I’d really like to have an answer will you also um um wait sorry sorry um sorry Madame Deputy speaker I’m waiting to see something coming through the door I beg your pardon right so now there’s been talked all morning about uh damaging confidence in the uh the compensation

Schemes if there is confidence in the compensation schemes can the Secretary of State explain to me why so many leading sub poost Masters who were affected by this Scandal were given such derisory offers months and months and months late that that’s just not on so you can’t say that Henry ston damaged the

The the compensation schemes that’s government that’s post office limited is the Secretary State aware that there are still 40 employees who would are still employed by post office limited who were investigators who raise convictions Madame Deputy speaker I know I haven’t got much longer exoneration

Must be speeded up and I agree with what the honorable gentleman the member of the opposition said exoneration must be hurried up compensation must be paid sooner rather than later and I’ve said that every month I think for the last nine months uh Madame Deputy speaker uh The Honorable lady asks multiple questions

The first one uh about a letter written by Nick Reed the post office chief executive to the Justice secretary um so what I can say is that UK gii and post office limited have both vehemently denied that uh Nick Reed was put under any pressure to write the letter that he

Is referring to um and in terms of the risks about making a decision on blanket exoneration uh the postal affairs minister has said uh repeatedly that we have been faced with a dilemma either except the present problem of many people carrying the unjustified slur of conviction or accept that an unknown

Number of people who have genuinely stolen from their post office will be exonerated and perhaps even uh compensated so that is the case that is certainly what the government believes what she is saying about people being put under pressure to write uh a letter that is something the UK gii and post

Office limited have both vehemently denied um The Honorable lady continues to uh act as if or certainly repeats the uh allegations that Mr ston has made I have already given a statement that they are completely false and uh she asks about the uh about individual cases of

People who have been paid I can can not comment on individual cases but um I would like to clarify that the main scheme that was in place under Henry thon’s watch was the Horizon shortfall scheme 2,417 cases uh were made offers within the original deadline so 100% had

Received offers but 84% had accepted offers I just want to clarify my previous um my previous comments and in terms of the 40 uh the 40 uh prosecutors still working at the post office that is something where a i as secretaries have had multiple people giving different bits of information that is something

That the inquiry is looking at and they will get to the bottom of it so John Redwood well she reviews the governance of Uki how did they manage to preside over the post office with the Dreadful treatment of the sub postmasters how did they allow the senior managers uh of the

Post office to rack up and accumulate losses of 1,390 million effectively bankrupting the post office so that it can now only trade if it has the reassurance of massive cash infusions from the treasury on a continuing base surely this body has done very badly and we need a better

Answer I uh my right honorable friend for his question uh this is one of the reasons why we have been making Personnel changes in this area but uh I think it goes back to the point which I was making in the statement that the post office needs an effective chair I

Did not have until the day I had the conversation with him uh dismissing him I never had any correspondence from Mr ston about difficulties that he was having with that Nick Reed wrote to uh the chancellor uh the uh the uh Lord Chancellor uh about over conviction mentioned the issue about 300 people

Possibly are going to be in quote guilty now she just told the house that those people sorry that the the investment body didn’t instruct him to do that well Henry Thon said ston said he didn’t tell them to write that the board didn’t know

About it so who did uh and can I ask that in the uh openness and transparency that she should produce all of the corresponds between uh UK Investments and the post office and can I just say to her She’s accused Henry ston of lying in public well the only reason we can

Actually judge that she is telling the truth is if we actually have all the information out there and can I just say to also from a obsession with tweeting when she says people are jumping on the bandwagon on this some of us have been involved in this for many years years on

A cross party basis working with people like a colleague the member for uh Molton and uh from for Molton and can I just say that’s quite insulting but what uh tone today will send to the sub postmasters I’ll say this it’s more cover up more rfication1 reject the assertions that

The Honorable gentleman has made and this is the political Point scoring which I talked about earlier which we need to which we just need to stop he is in rather than focus on the issue he’s talking about my tweeting um I think maybe he should get off Twitter and

Actually listen to what I’m saying um at the dispatch box he’s talking about he is talking about uh a letter which ukg have said that they did not ask uh uh Nick Reed to write so I think the question that he’s uh the only possible answer is that Nick Reed himself s

Decided to write that letter I I I didn’t ask him to write it post office say they didn’t ukg didn’t and this is what these are the sorts of things just trying to continue to make aspersions on ministers we have made the post office an independent body we have an

Independent inquiry and the information will come out in due course SAR Burns terrible speaker there is no doubt that there was a bad culture in the post office for a very long time they misled a significant number of ministers who to put it gently could have been more

Inquiring over the years like it D can I right on friend tell us if she’s had time to reflect on the words of the non-executive members of the board representing the postmasters who say that only days before she sacked the chairman that there was still a culture

That they were guilty and that they were on the take and if that sacking has brought the compens ation to those people who were traumatized and misled by the post office who had their lives destroyed her decision will go down as being a very very welcome

One um I thank my right honorable friend uh for that question and of course I am I am going to agree with him but I think it is very interesting the comments that were made by the two uh members of the board who were former post uh postmasters they are saying exactly what

I’m saying that Henry ston was not doing a good job as post office chair which leads me back to the point made by uh The Honorable gentleman in his previous question he is more interested in attacking the government than looking at what even the members of the board are

Saying it is important that we continue to give confidence to people that these organizations are run properly and that was the reason for the dismissal Al car Michel thank you madam Deputy speaker whatever the reason for it I can tell the Secretary of State having supported constituents in

Negotiation in in relation to the historic shortfall scheme that the conduct of the post office and of their agents in that was one which was characterized by delay and obstruction that in turn led to EV view taking hold among sub poost Masters that there was no point in making claims since the ITV

Drama was aired I’ve heard of a number of constituents in my own area that have made claims belatedly so what more is the government doing to ensure sure that everybody who is out there who may have a claim is actually going to be able to receive it uh I Thank The Honorable gentleman

For his question it is a good one I think the fixed sum awards are showing that this is a matter that we are taking very seriously I became business secretary in February of last year and my one priority was to make sure that people got their compensation as quickly

As possible I did everything that I possibly could with uh the post office Minister the member th Molton who I really want to take uh the opportunity to thank for his tireless efforts he had been uh looking at the portfolio before I got the job as business secretary and

I knew that uh the work was in safe hands we’ve worked together as a team we have fought uh cross departmentally to make sure that people got the compensation that they deserve we brought legislation in uh just before uh December well before the ITV drama but the cases that he raises are really

Important to show that there’s still a lot of work to do and we will continue doing that Duncan Baker Madam Deputy speaker uh given the post office track record with accuracy I’m very glad that we have had the Secretary of State I’d rather take her assurances at the

Dispatch box than anything from a former disgruntled uh sacked uh employee of the post office I during this recess I even had constituents coming to me still saying that they were affected by the Horizon Scandal so can you assure people that are watching out there it is a very

Quick and simple process that people that still feel they lost money in that horrendous period do keep coming forward because there is a process that is easy to be able to fill in a form to make sure your voice is heard and you get that compensation um uh my honorable friend

Is quite right um and I want to thank him uh for raising this and also for the work he did I know that he was a former post off uh postmaster so he knows quite a lot about what has been going on and uh I do want to reassure uh all of the

People who’ve been affected by the Scandal this is something that we are taking very seriously I was absolutely horrified when I became business secretary to see the the sheer scale of trauma that people had been going through we want people to continue coming forward and where they’re not

Happy with the process we will look again but there is a formal process that is in place that makes sure that all the postmasters can be treated fairly uh equally and equitably uh Dame Diana Johnson thank you muty speaker uh the allegations of limping towards the general election in

Terms of delaying um compensation payments to postmasters does actually mirror the behavior of government towards the infected blood Scandal the government have had the final recommendations on that compensation since April 2023 with no action so it seems to me that there is a pattern of behavior the government only seemed to act when

Forced to or shamed to into taking any action and it’s clear with the infected blood Scandal we’ve been told uh repeatedly by ministers that the government is working at pace so actually what that really means is they’re limping at PACE aren’t they uh no no and no and I think it’s a

Shame that The Honorable lady would stand up there and say that the government only acted when it was forced to when she knows that we brought legislation to this house well before the i TV drama she knows about the uh Horizon shortfall scheme she knows about the Glo payments she knows about the

Overturn convictions and the fact the fact that she is trying to mix this up with the infected blood uh uh inquiry knowing knowing that I have just proved that the allegations made by Minister ston are completely false I have said that minutes will be put on the record

Show that this is not an issue which they want to look at Beyond political Point scoring and I will not stand at this dispatch box and allow that to happen s d mam Deputy speaker leaks at the weekend to newspapers appear to show really poor embedded practices at the

Post office board using language about our postmasters as being on the take or guilty what is my right honorable friend doing to clean up the ACT clean up the ACT uh my honorable friend wasis a very good point this is why we need effective leadership at the post office this is

Why I took the decision that I did to dismiss Mr ston uh amongst other uh amongst the other allegations which um or are the other issues which I’ve uh put into this into the statement we need people who care and one of the problems uh that one of the things that worries

Me is that because Mr Thon has decided to have a revenge in the papers it’s going to make it even harder for us to find people who will come in and do this very very difficult job and I hope that they will not be put off by the

Misinformation that has been in the papers Andrew bridon thank you madam Deputy speaker and I thank the Secretary of State for her prompt statement and her laying out her version of events around the dismissal of Mr stormon the post office chairman and we have to accept her statements from the dispatch

P but I have to take exception to one point she’s made she said there was no evidence of stalling of compensation but that evidence comes from the experience of my own constituents Mr and Mrs rodkin whose evidence to uh to to me was absolutely fundamental in unraveling this whole post office Horizon Scandal

Susan ludkins criminal conviction was overturned in the one of the first nine in December 2020 when I spoke to Mr and Mrs rodkin only a few weeks ago they still have not received their compensation over 3 years after that criminal conviction was overturned if that’s not evidence of stalling Madame Deputy speaker what

Is uh Madame Deputy speaker uh what I would say is that I can’t comment uh because I don’t have the details on that specific case but a fixed sum award is available should they wish to take it there is a process we will move as quickly as he can I can’t speak

Specifically about why that delay is there but we’re doing everything we can to get the money out to the post Masters as quickly as possible Richard TRS Mr Speaker I have a once proud former postmaster in my constituency who ran the post office in swanic he fell foul

Of this Scandal and was sacked not prosecuted his life was utterly ruined and he repaid the money that he was owed that was many many years ago his wife is now very very ill he still has not had compensation now I make two points one his lawyer tells me the compensation

Scheme is taking too long and secondly because he wasn’t prosecuted can I ask for the front bench’s assurance that he won’t be brushed off financially simply because he wasn’t prosecuted this man’s life and his wife his their lives have been utterly ruined uh I thank my honorable uh friend

For for that question I I know exactly the sort of people he will be talking about and it is really uh awful to hear everything that they have been through I myself have a constituent who I spoken to who’s talked about how this Scandal

Ruined her life we owe it to them to do everything we can to make sure that they are fully compensated I can assure him that ministers and officials are working every day I know it isn’t always as quick as people would like but we want to make sure that it is done properly

And that there are no issues uh following that I don’t have the specific details of that case but they can apply to the Horizon shortfall scheme and and if he brings it to the postal affairs minister we will look at it um specifically Kate Osborne thank you madam Deputy speaker ministers have

Promised that the government will bring in a new law and to swiftly exonerate and compensate victims so can the Secretary of State tell me why my constituent Chris headed has only been offered 133% of his compensation claim how can sub postmasters trust the government or the post office to to deliver full and

Fair compensation when they’re still facing so much push back on their compensation claims and receiving offers that go nowhere near Financial restoration let alone compensation for the Injustice and if I can just quickly add Madame Deputy speaker the suggestion by the secretary of state that the government would have acted in the same

Way had the ITV drama not being shown is completely unbelieved or unbelievable by most and none more so than the sub post Masters Themselves Madam Deputy speaker the fact that in December we had brought legislation to the house empty benches all opposite when that legislation uh was brought through empty benches they are the ones who have decided to take a more keen interest after the drama we have been working flat out I do not have

The specific details of her constituent as she knows but I will continue to repeat what I’ve said that where there are people who haven’t received uh compensation we can look at it there is a process there is also an independent panel that they can appeal to but the

Vast majority of people who have been getting offers are taking them Brendan Clark Smith than you Deputy speaker too often quango bosses are rewarded for failure and able to walk away with big payouts and it would be a disgrace for the man who has done so little to get

Compensation for postmasters to get any himself so could the Secretary of State confirm that she will block any such payments there will be no payments to Henry ston Sammy Wilson speaker the public squabble at the weekend I think further undermines the confidence which people have in uh what’s going to happen and the

Government’s assurances to compensate post office uh so uh um people who are affected um I I tend to believe the the view of the minister simply because the record of post office officials of cover up and of passing the book and of trying to cause confusion

Has is on record we know what they’re they’re doing but the fact remains there are still people who have not had any offer of compensation yeah there’s still a billion P pounds which is not been spent and in giving compensation there are still people who haven’t um even had

Their cases considered is the best way of answering Henry ston not for the government to get on with the job and to make sure that compensation is paid quickly and that people uh uh get the compensations deserve yes The Honorable gentleman is quite right and 64% uh the the number I

Gave ear 64% of people have received we know that we want to get it to 100% as quickly as possible but we want to make sure that people get the right amount they’re compensated fairly and that’s why we have the process including uh a point of appeal if they’re unhappy with

The offer but the point he made right at the beginning of his question is correct that people do uh find this does undermine this the uh the the points made in the newspapers do undermine what the work that we are doing it was very disappointing to read those statements

It was also disappointing because i’ done everything I could to try and keep this out of the news uh and do it behind closed doors properly I made sure when I gave Min uh your public statements that I said I wouldn’t do HR in public I even

When I found out they had been leaked to Sky News called Sky News and asked them my one of my assistants did to ask them not to put that out in public domain before I had a chance to speak to Henry ston did the same with the Daily Mail

Who thankfully did listen but we also need the media to help us in this and not publish falce allegations Le Anderson thank mut speaker Nan I am absolutely staggered that the labor party now seem to be coming out in support of the disgraced post office management team this by the

Way this by the way mad speaker is the same management team that oversaw the wrongful uh imprisonment of of of constituents postmasters across the country hundreds of convictions so does my right friend agree with me that when when push comes to shove that that lot over there would take the side of the

Grifters not the grafters um I thank my honorable friend for his question and uh this is one of the reasons as he said the uh where the post office leadership had uh overseen the wrongful convictions we have had multiple changes and this is just the latest to ensure that we get the right

Uh the right leadership in place but as we can see I know that some of the uh some of the members opposite are dealing with this properly but from the heckling we can see that for a lot of them they came here thinking that they could get

Political points scored and I am not allowing that to happen Chris Bryant a a lot of members are of course um angry and impatient about trying to get compensation and exoneration for all the postmasters as soon as possible and if we’re all honest as Parliament we should have been much more impatient much

Earlier as a whole and there are some some rare exceptions including the my honorable friend who spoken earlier and and obviously members on the other side of the house as well um but can I just clarify something about the process of his dismissal um as I understand it um

He he found out about it from Sky News I think the Secretary of State just added a piece of information which is that she then rang Sky News before ringing him I think to try and get them to stop running it so she knew that this had

Already been leaked to Sky News from somebody in her Department presumably um what what investigation did she go through to find out who that was um that leaked it has that is that person still in post um because otherwise one might just worry that it might have been she herself who leaked

It um I I knew I knew that someone I knew that someone would uh would ask that question I have in fact evidence to show that I asked Sky News not to run the story of course I didn’t leak it because if I had it would have created

It would have created legal risk if he found out on the news before if he found out on the news before I had had a chance to uh a chance to speak to him we have no idea how Sky News found out the information there are several thousand

People who work at the department for business and trade there are many more who work at the post office at ukg The Honorable member is heckling but the point I am making is that Leakes are incredibly damaging and harmful they create legal risk for the Department I

Did not do so I made multiple efforts with at least two media uh Outlets to make sure that they did not create problems for Mr Thon and it is one of the reasons why it is very disappointing to see what he did in the Sunday Times of the

Weekend Deb abens thank you Madame Deputy speaker to be honest I’m afraid I don’t think the business secretary and her statement has has helped us to get closer to what the uh the truth is in this uh situ it is a question of the Secretary of State’s um version of

Events and the former Chairman’s version of events so would um for clarity um and to try and draw a line on this and to get to the truth would the Secretary of State be willing to refer herself to to the ethics advisor I think that that is a ridiculous assertion from someone who

Clearly was not listening to the stat the difference between what I’m saying and what Mr ston is saying is that I have officials who will back me up I have members of The Advisory of of the post office board who will back me up I have uh newspaper uh and media uh

Outlets who will know that I try to stop the story the fact is she just wants to believe Mr st’s allegations because that helps them politically but they are not true they need to listen to the truth and stop hoping for lies that is not what our job is in this

House Deputy speaker if Henry ston is uh guilty of what they secretary of state has accused him of it does beg us belief that he was only appointed two years ago by this government but but uh can I ask her about post office investigations because I’ve got yet another constituent who’s come forward

Who’s forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement by the post office who hasn’t been fully compensated for what they lost when they lost their business is it is it acceptable for the post office to be involved with investigations still given how discredited they are how can the victims

Of this Scandal have any confidence in the process that the post office is involved with in any way whatsoever uh I think the the way that we have been dealing with this issue at the dispatch box the work that the inquiry is uh is carrying out and our

Commitment to look at individual cases and make sure that the process is working out properly is how uh the postmasters will have confidence in the system uh Ben Lake in recent weeks I’ve met with a number of constituents former sub post Masters who’ve explained the terrible impact this Scandal has had on their

Lives although they weren’t actually convicted by the post office they did have to pay large sums of money to pay for shortfalls that quite frankly didn’t exist and I’d be very grateful if the Secretary of State could confirm that it is the government’s expectation that they are not only compensated for the

Money that they paid but also for the financial and personal harm that this Scandal caused their AG this is definitely what we’re trying to do no one should be in a worse position than they were before this Scandal happened and where we can provide additional compensation we will

Be able to do so and that’s what the process is set out to do stas thank you madam Deputy sticker I mean I think many of us would be concerned about the department that overseas employment rights being one where thousands of people know somebody’s about to be sacked before they do but we

Would agree with the Secretary of State when she says this is really about giving the public confidence that when wrongs come to light they will be writed and the challenge that she faces here is the track record of recent decades is not good it’s not just about the Horizon

Scandal it’s about the nuclear veterans wind Rush the wasby women infected blood Scandal grenfell time and time again it’s the compensation schemes themselves that become the story and a source of Injustice so rather than taking to Twitter isn’t the right rejoinder on this to become the first Secretary of

State to say actually we should put out to an independent body management of compensation schemes involving government so that everybody could have confidence I’m sure she would find support on this benches for that first of all I haven’t said that thousands of people knew that Henry St

Was being S I said there are thousands of people who work in the department and it could have been anybody who put that out there again it’s really important that we stick to what is uh what’s been said on the record she mentions that these are scandals that have been going

Over decades I would like to remind her that the Horizon Scandal happened and started under a labor government it is this government that is beginning to fix it Barbara ke thank you madam D speaker I want to raise with the Secretary of State the shortcomings of the Horizon

Shortfall scheme my constituent Mr penny inton was a sub Post Master for 20 years and he has raised issues about those shortcomings after he went through 10 years of financial distress paying back shortfall amounts demanded by the errors generated by The Horizon system the poorly designed Horizon shortfall scheme

Has paid back only part of the short for which is possibly £100,000 has only paid back part of that and only a poultry 1,500 for 10 years of financial stress and worry I wrote to the minister responsible 4 weeks ago and I haven’t had a response when will the

Shortcomings of this scheme The Horizon scheme be reviewed so that sub postmasters like Mr Pennington received full not part compensation for all those years of distress M uh Madam Deputy speaker The Honorable lady has right to raise that we are aware of this problem uh this is something that we’re working with The

Advisory Board to see how we can fix and make sure people get proper compensation and um I just been told by the uh post uh postal affairs minister that the letter which she’s expecting should be with her shortly shalomi thank you Madame Deputy speaker I thank the Secretary of State

For her statement um she’ll be aware that many post office branches have closed in recent years including the Clapham common post office in my constituency which is due to close on the 6th of March in her statement the Secretary of State said that right now the post officers number one priority is

Delivering compensation to the postmasters does she agree with me that millions of pounds spent on the post office trying to pay the submasters innocent submasters should have been better spent on actually making sure we keep our Vital post offices up and down the country um I I’d like to thank the

Honorable lady for her tireless work uh campaigning to save the uh clap post office I know she’s had many meetings with the postal affairs minister I think that we should be able to do both we should be able to keep post offices uh open as well as

Compensate Perry thank you as this is a genuine National Scandal it’s important that sub poost master with criminal convictions in terms of exoneration are treated equally with a shared Speedy common approach across uh the UK uh both I and the recently reappointed Justice minister in Northern Ireland have written two ministers asking for

Northern Ireland to be included in forthcoming legislation however I understand that the government’s currently not minded to do so in terms of the devolved administrations H can I ask the the secretary state to confirm that North Ireland will be part of that that legislation which which hopefully

Will be brought forward soon um the I think G for his question he will know that uh storman is now up and running and there are conversations which we will be having with Deval government on the best way to resolve this we don’t have an answer now but we are aware of

This issue and we’re working on it Jones thank you madam deput speaker the reports on the weekend were extremely alarming given the way that the post Masters have been treated in recent years the obvious question though is could the the Secretary of State give any Assurance or guarantee that that the

Compensation will be repaid and those uh the um compensation taken forward before the general election is called that surely is the very basic that sub postmasters would ask uh and very least that they deserve yeah yeah that’s absolutely the right thing to do and I thank the honorable gentleman for his question

Because it gives me another opportunity to just to restate that the very idea that compensation would be delayed till after the election is a complete nonsense it doesn’t even make political sense we want to make sure people get their money as quickly as possible Jim Shannon thank you Madam Deputy speaker

And can I thank the Secretary State very much for our our very uh positive answers uh secret State across the United Kingdom Great Britain and Norther there hundreds of postmasters and post Mistresses are still waiting compensation for these wrongdoings wi it’s understood that this is a very sensitive subject of money can the

Secretary of State provide an update to the the time scale or just when SEC State expects everyone entitled to be compensated especially for all constituents across United k the nor the fact of the matter is some people waited 2 years 3 years and longer it just really can’t go

On um Madam deput speaker uh The Honorable member is uh gentleman is right it can’t go on I want to see everyone get their money as quickly as possible uh by the end of this year everybody should have received their funding that’s certainly what I’m working towards I thank the uh Secretary of

State for her statement and we now come to I’ll just let the personnel change statement Minister Leo doy Madame Deputy speaker with permission I would like to update the house on the death of Alexi Nali I am sure I speak for the whole house in sending our deepest condolences

To Mr nal’s family friends and supporters we are appalled at the news of of his death Mr Nali dedicated his life with great bravery to exposing corruption he called for free and fair politics and held Kremlin to account he was an inspiration to millions and many

Russians felt that he gave them a voice the Russian authorities saw him as a threat President Putin feared to even speak his name Putin’s Russia imprisoned him on fabricated charges poisoned him and sent him to an Arctic penal colony Mr Nal was a man of huge courage and

Iron will even from his remote prison cell he persisted and advocating for the rights of the Russian people no one should doubt the Dreadful nature of the Russian system years of mistreatment at the hands of the state had a serious effect on Mr Nani’s Health his death must be investigated fully and

Transparently the Russian authorities must urgently confirm the location of Mr nal’s body to his family and allow them access to it on Friday the foreign Commonwealth and development office summoned the Russian ambassador to express our outrage at Mr naval’s death we made clear that we hold the Russian authorities fully responsible as the

Foreign secretary said over the weekend those responsible must be held to account and I can assure the house that we are working at PACE to explore all options as a mark of respect the foreign secretary and his G7 counterparts began their meeting on Saturday with a

Minute’s silence in honor of Mr valy our ambassador in Moscow laid flowers at the memorial to victims of political repression on Saturday the ideals which Mr naly stood and died will live forever and I commend this statement to the house uh Shadow Minister Steven Dy yeah thank you madam Deputy speaker and I’m

Grateful to the minister for advanced sight of his statement uh mad Deputy speaker this weekend my right honorable friends the leader of the opposition and the shadow foreign secretary attended the Munich security conference and heard Julia naal Alex naval’s wife speaking with remarkable courage and conviction in a moment of

Utter personal grief and I share the comments of the minister and I’m sure the whole house will join us all in sending our deepest condolences to her and her family the death of Alexa naly was shocking and yet cruy predictable because let us be Crystal Clear one person Bears the overwhelming

Responsibility for his death one person above all all others should be held accountable Alexi Nal is yet another victim of the oppressive system that Putin has built the system of which he was such a potent critic he was not a saint but he fought relentlessly optimistically and with Good Humor

Against the corruption and popocracy of modern Russia and indeed the last few years of his life were a profile in Courage after an assassination attempt with a chemical weapon there would have been no shame at all in Seeking a quiet life but instead he chose not just to

Return to the fry but to return to Russia and he knew exactly what he would face but Alexa Nal believed relentlessly indefatigably in a different Russia a Russia that could be in his words not only free but happy everything will be all right he once wrote from prison and

Even if it isn’t we will have the consolation of having lived honest lives Nal needs courage his campaign against corruption and his dream of a democratic Russia will live on in those Brave Russians who continue to speak up we know that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is an illegal act of aggression Naval

Called it a stupid War built on lies it’s been devastating for Ukraine but also for Russia which edges further into darkness propaganda and paranoia Alexi Nal of course challenged not just Russian autocracy and cocy he also challenged past Western hypocrisy and in enablement and his campaign was not just

About Moscow but also London we must deliver the changes he campaigned for the reality is we have still much further to go and it’s therefore very disappointing that the minister shown up with nothing new to say in response to last week’s appalling news and I want to therefore ask him will the government

Review further sanctions on Russia including an assessment of the full naali list will he launch a new effort to Target those networks that are responsible for facilitating and enabling International corruption little or no action on breaches of new Russian sanctions brought in since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine has

Happened so will he not strengthen not just our sanctions regime by how those sanctions are enforced will he support calls to establish an international anti-corruption court and will he turn rhetoric on Frozen Russian State assets into tangible action when will the government get on with it it’s a source

Of Shame Madam Deputy speaker that under successive Tor governments Britain became the money laundering capital of the world and our tributes to Alexi Nali must be more than just rhetorical and include tangible action at home to clean up the financial crime fueling autocrats abroad finally mad speaker I want to ask

The minister about Vladimir kamosa I’ve met his Brave wife and mother personally and heard directly from them Vladimir is another Brave and vocal opponent of Putin languishing in prison for his beliefs he’s also a British citizen we know what Putin is capable of so can I ask the minister what the fcd’s current

Assessment of his welfare is what steps are being taken to support him and his family the tragic death of Alexi naly has reverberated across the world it must serve as a reminder of Putin’s Menace and underscore our responsibility to oppose him in Ukraine on the world

Stage and indeed here in London and I hope that the minister can provide the house with some assurance that today’s statement will be accompanied with commensurate bold and Urgent action well Madam Deputy speaker we we will act but I can I say uh first can I express my thanks uh to The Honorable

Gentleman for for the tone uh of his response and I join him in uh uh endorsing everything he said about the heroically brave uh Mrs naali uh those of in this house who watched her video early this morning will have been extremely moved uh by her fortitude and

Courage in this extremely difficult time uh and he used the word courage with with with regard to uh Mr naali which was uh abs appropriate those of us who watch the footage of Mr Nali returning to Russia subsequent to the the novachuk attack uh uh were humbled by his uh

Audacity and his bravery and uh his hope for a free and happy Russia is something that we must ensure that can remain in the hearts of the many Russians who despite the uh extraordinary levels of press sship and repression uh deserve to have that uh uh promise the opportunity

To live up to that promise um it would be premature Madam if comment on uh the prospect of future sanctions uh in addition to the sanctions that have already been put in place with regard to his poisoning uh but I can assure The Honorable gentleman and the house that

We are working at PACE uh and looking at all options in that regard uh of course we will continue our very active uh diplomatic work to uh uh crack down all networks of corruption surrounding uh the Russian uh state and its ocracy uh and as a part of that sanctions evasion

Is a particularly important uh component and uh some our diplomatic teams around the world uh in allies in concept where allies are are very much focused on uh he asked a relevant question about uh seizing versus freezing assets we are we continue to work with G7 allies and

Looking to to look at all legal routs to ensuring that assets that are uh Frozen might be used to help the Reconstruction effort uh by the he by those who deserve them and uh we will keep the house updated as and when we make progress on

That but we do seek uh to act in this regard and that is how we can honor Mr nal’s uh memory and his legacy by acting not just making rhetorical statements he asked about Mr Vladimir karura uh through our ambassador in Moscow we continue to make representations inquiring after his health and

Well-being and seeking uh consulate access to him and uh I can confirm that the foreign secretary is remains in contact uh uh with uh with Mrs Karen murza and continues to support the family chair of the Foreign Affairs select committee Alysia K thank you Madame Deputy speaker Alexa naly was

Murdered and it is important that we in this house call it out for what it was because that is what he deserves following his murder I was also Munich where I heard his wife ulia ask for us to stand by her that is what we must now

Do the US threatened over a year ago that there would be significant repercussions if navali was murdered Biden must now deliver on that threat or we will see more lives taken such as that of Vladimir kerza in addition will my right horable friend and I reiterate the cuse for the

Seizing of Central Bank assets I would make the point that that was done before the UN Security Council froze and seized Iraqi assets so we have a precedent there is no reason for us to find new legislation or other ways to do so but beyond that we do need to pursue a

Special Tribune on the crime of aggression will we consider also sanctioning Russia’s Deposit Insurance Agency and finally to hit the heart of Putin’s economy will we urge the US to release more oil and therefore drive down prices pleas well Madam speak I’m very grateful to The Honorable uh lady uh who

Speaks with authority and I’m grateful for her Reflections on her meeting in Munich she’s right to use the word uh murder uh we we do seek to hold uh the state and the Russian leadership uh to account uh of course I can’t comment on the American position but with regard to

Uh our policy with regard to Russia State assets we will continue to look at uh the appropriate legal path to ensuring that that which is frozen might be utilized uh to bring benefit um to those affected by this outrageous illegal war in Ukraine uh uh in terms of

Accountability a special tribunal is one of the things that we are considering uh together with our Ukrainian allies and Sir Howard Morrison and there’s been a large degree of institutional work together uh with uh ukrainians and the G7 uh uh group uh in regard to that so

We will continue to find the best mechanism possible uh that might sit alongside the ICC uh which has already of course indicted uh Putin uh which and that indictment for uh uh crimes with relation to uh trafficking children did have an impact on his travel PL so it

Does the sometimes the the cogs of Justice can turn slowly but they do turn surely surely she mentioned good point about the insurance agency I can’t comment on that now and she also asked about uh the flows of oil which uh again I can’t make make any comment but we are

Uh focused in a laser-like way on the economic impact of our sanctions in the round and I should say that this house should have confidence that when you take our actions uh uh as part of the G7 response the economic impact and the in the extent to which G7 and uh

International actions uh in terms of sanctions the way that they have impacted the ability of Putin to fund his War have been very very significant to the tune of billions uh S&P spokesperson Alan Smith thank you Madame Deputy speaker we are all of us appalled at this murder and

The timing of it it was designed to send a message and it needs a serious response and I’m grateful for sight of the statement as far as it goes and I think the minister would acknowledge that it doesn’t go very far so I would press for further action the minister

Will be aware that the EU Foreign Affairs council is meeting in Brussels as we speak and they’re looking at a range of measures as well so can the minister assure us that the UK will be part of those efforts particularly with regard to the implementation of magnitsky sanctions I’m not looking for

Announcement now but making sure that we are coordinated with that also I’d reiterate my own calls for the sequestration of the Russian assets that have been seized this death this murder was designed to send a message a serious message must be the response to it and

If there is one it’ll have S&P support thank you I’m grateful as ever to the uh S&P spokesperson for his tone and his support of course it would be premature for me to comment on and we never comment by convention on sanctions from the dispatch box but of course we are

Looking at PACE at all options in response to this uh outrageous event and of course in in in that context we will continue to liaz with us and uh EU allies uh that’s a matter of course he he asked a good question about seest creation again I can’t comment other than to say

That we are we continue to look at the most viable legal route to bring about that good Mr Jacob Reese Mark Madam Deputy speaker goodable friend tell the house what advantages remain in maintaining diplomatic relations with this murderous and barbarous regime the benefit Madam de speaker is

In order to deliver messages of uh condemnation and outrage and to continue to Advocate uh for Consular access to those uh held by the uh Russian regime he Margaret H thank you madam Deputy SE I want to turn to the economic impact of the sanctions uh uh which the minister

Alluded to a loophole in our sanctions regime means that countries like China and India Import Russian crude oil process it and then sell it into the UK as refin refed oil in 2023 we imported 5.2 million barrels of this oil and that means that we sent something like 141

Million pounds in tax revenue into kremlin’s warchest Britain is also the biggest insurer of Russian oil moved by sea most of which is sold at prices well above the price cap again violating sanctions does the minister agree that tough words are no substitute for tough actions especially after the shocking murder of

The heroic Alexi naldi will he agree to report back to Parliament before Easter with proposals to stop this stanions busting M speak speaker we we should have confidence that the economic impact of sanctions has been very significant Putin has been denied uh hundreds of billions of dollars because of the

Collect action of G7 uh Nations is it perfect no it’s not are we looking at ways of making it more effective yes we are and will we keep the house updated of course Elwood’s uh speech at the Munich security conference changed the tone of that entire summmer she called for the

West to act would the minister agree with me that naval’s death underlines Putin’s determination to emulate staning to quash free voice of speech in Russ Russia but also to extend Russia’s influence Beyond its own borders could I ask whether the we when we speak of sanctions we might also consider

Pressing the Americans to expedite that $60 billion that Ukraine needs because one way we can honor nal’s life is by making sure Ukraine wins and Russia loses and to that extent could I also suggest that while diplomatic back channels need to remain open Maybe maybe it’s time to dismiss the Russian

Ambassador Madam speaker we will continue to lead by example in terms of our provision of lethal Aid and humanitarian Aid and of course we hope and expect that our closest allies will uh do the same the impact of our provision has been very very significant

He made a very good point about uh pu Putin’s leadership I think what this event shows actually is the fact that Putin is fearful fearful of those who have the courage likeness of Valley to challenge him and speak truth to power because that’s the most uh that is the

Most uh uh potent uh action in the face of a cruel repressive tyrannical regime uh like Mr Putin’s which ultimately is quite brittle Richard Ford thank you madam Deputy speaker at the end of February last year Alexa Nal clarified his position on Crimea he talked about how

The borders of Ukraine and of Russia were internationally recognized and were defined in 1991 does the minister agree that while it’s not our position or or our place to choose the government of Russia um we do long for a time when Russia is governed by government that respects sovereignty and territorial

Integrity horable gentlemen and there is no inevitability about uh the Russian people being ruled by tyrannical Tyrant alatar there’s no inevitability that and then Mr Mr naly knew that and that’s why his messages and his brilliantly produced and humorous videos were watched by millions of people in Russia

Because many millions of Russian people seek that alternative Henry Smith thank you Madame Deputy speaker it is clear that domestically the Putin regime is a criminal Racket and of course internationally has brought war against Ukraine and threatens many others what discussions and diplomatic effort efforts is the UK government making with

Other NATO members who don’t pay the minimum 2% GDP towards our common defense very good question and we and we continue to make that point very uh in a very for Fred way to our NATO allies which is as he knows a growing organization uh with uh a growing

Potency and capability uh but we collectively must and will put our money where Steven kennet thank you very much Madam Deputy speaker I declare an interest I was director of the British Council in St Petersburg from 2005 to 2008 and also I’m honored to call Vladimir caramuta my

Friend uh I met him shortly before he insisted on flying back to Russia and in spite of many of us urging him not to do that it’s a measure of the man that he he did that and and indeed we’re talking about somebody who the Russian auth authorities have tried to poison twice

So similar to the heroism of uh Naval caramuta has stood up against the mafia state that is represented by Vladimir Putin the question I’d like to ask the minister is he has said and it was good to hear that the our ambassador in Moscow is doing his best to get access

To camota um could I press him on this issue around his medical condition he is weakened by the two attempts at his poisoning and and we are desperately worried uh that he may well be uh on on the list in terms of what uh the Kremlin

May be wanting to do next and and his medical health is of the utmost importance could so could the minister please say what steps are being taken specifically to ensure that Mr kot’s health is being looked after grateful to The Honorable gentleman and I’m great

And he knows and he he he he he knows from his own experience the system that uh we are dealing with in direct answer his question uh we continue to make representations at the very highest level into the senior membership leadership of the Russia state that we

Expect Mr K M’s Health to be attended to and to him to for him to receive Medical Care and for no threat to be made to his life that that that message is carried by our ambassador to directly to Russian government ministers and of course in in

Addition to that uh uh ministers and the foreign secretary continue to engage with Mrs Cara to offer their family full support Mr John witting um does my honorable friend agree that the murder of Alexander uh Nal following the murder earlier of Boris nof shows the absolute

Refusal of Putin to tolerate any kind of genuine Democratic opposition and will the government therefore give absolutely no credibility or recognition to the Sham pretense that the so-called presidential election taking place next month in Russia under undoubtedly will be here here indeed Madam speaker he speaks from a position of knowledge and

He’s absolutely right about the the forthcoming sham elections on the 12th of March uh the the the murders of which he speaks um uh do show a terrible pattern and but as I said previously we should not feel that there is in any inevitability about uh repression repressive government being an

Inevitability in Russia um the Russian people do have a hope that there can be a different uh government and that’s why Mr Nani’s message uh was received so well Joanna Cherry speaker all those who care about democracy and Free Speech should condemn the murder of Alexander naly but one of

The most meaningful things the United Kingdom government could do to honor his memory is to take steps to deal effectively with the dirty Russian money being laundered in this country particularly as it’s money coming that’s been made through nefarious means by allies o of Putin so could the government address that question what

Are they going to do to deal more effectively with the dirty Russian money being laundered in the United Kingdom the house should have confidence and should be proud of the fact that we have sanctioned more than 1,900 individuals and entities there is no there is no space or place for dirty

Russian money in the United Kingdom OB thank you madam Deputy speaker I just want to reinforce the point of about Vladimir kosa he’s a British citizen he’s now the most high-profile political prisoner in Russia in my conversations with the minister and with his officials when I’ve talked about prisoner swaps

Which I was doing at the beest of the Nal team um it was made quite clear that to do that encourages State hostage taking I accept that argument as difficult as it is unfortunately it comes at a price in my conversations with yenia Cara murer she is adamant

That she wants everything now done if possible to get Vladimir out despite the fact that he went back of his own accord Bo because his health is in a fragile condition and if Putin can kill naani he can kill Cara mza there is some criticism that the government has not

Done everything possible in the past will he reassure me that every conceivable course of action to get Kara murer out potentially including you know negotiated swaps with you know Russian spies in Sweden or wherever every option will be looked at because otherwise he’ll be next well Madame deput speaker as he as

The Honorable gentleman said himself we we do not and would not countenance a policy of prison SWS um but of course uh we continue to make every effort to support Mrs caram merza and to seek uh the release of Vladimir Neil Hanley speaker holding political prisoners is not a sign of strength it’s

A sign of weakness and uh Mr nal’s death and murder should be rightly condemned however right now in the UK journalist Julian Assan is in Bel Marsh prison for blowing the whistle on atrocities in Iraq does the minister agree that it is important for the UK government to measure itself against the same

Standards if it’s going to criticize others abely well I think I think theable gentleman can sense that the house knows there is no equivalence David Jones thank you madam Deputy speaker in 2020 uh Alexi n nalni was treated in hospital in Berlin having been poisoned in Russia um by a toxin

Subsequently identified as my honorable friend has said as novichok which was the same toxin that was used in the attempted murder of Sergey scal in Salsbury in 2018 uh given the uh use of the same toxin in such s similar circumstances does my honorable friend not agree that

It is overwhelmingly likely that agents of the Russian state were responsible for the attempted murder of nalni in 2020 uh that any protest current protestations by the Russian state that it is not responsible for his death last week are entirely risible and what action is the government taking to

Ensure that those who are responsible are brought to book and tried before a court the right or gentleman is is correct uh that’s why we do demand a full and TR transparent investigation because those individuals involved must be held to account uh Sammy Wilson M speaker the whole house should be

Worried about developments such as we have seen at the weekend with the murder of nalni because this Russian State now run by a bunch of criminals seems arrogant enough to assassinate opposition people outside its own boundaries invade Nations threaten other nations and now of course suppress democracy in his own country it’s

Disappointing the minister has only come today saying that he’ll look at all the options can he come to this house very soon with a list of sanctions additional sanctions we can impose in this regime and also with ideas of how we can isolate them diplomatically well Madam speaker I can

Confirm to him that as and when action is taken we’re working at PACE at uh working up uh all options we will keep this house informed but work is on the way at PACE I can give him that Assurance James wild thank you Madame Deputy speaker in terms of sanctions

This is paing murder is not really about the prison guards it’s about who gave the order and that can only be Putin so does he agree that we need to intensify the sanctions against him personally against his regime and pursue all measures to hold into account for this

Murder well I I do agree madam again it’s a matter of justice and international law prob anything else the cogs of w turn slowly but we should have confidence that they they do turn Damia Griffith thank you very much indeed M Deputy speaker well the gruesome treatment and appalling murder

Of Alexa nvi naal is a stark reminder if ever we needed one of the evils of Putin’s regime now time and time again we have asked what progress the government is making to overcome the legal concerns in order to rep purpose of Frozen Russian assets to support the recovery and reconstruction of

Ukraine as other countries like Canada and Estonia are already doing and yet again we’ve had an empty response this afternoon so could the minister now really prioritize this issue and come back as soon as possible with a real plan of how we in the UK are going to

Use those assets and make sure we can help Ukraine yeah yeah yeah well mad we are working at this in Pace it is urgently important and of of course we will keep the house updated uh Richard dra thank you madam de speaker it takes an extraordinary

Person to go back to a country where he knew he’d be imprisoned tortured and then murdered and all our thoughts I know I with are with Alexi nal’s wife and uh our best wishes go to her the best way to commemorate his tragic death is to ensure that Ukraine does not fall

Will my R friend ensure the house that he’s doing straining every diplomatic senu to ensure that our allies both in NATO and the EU give Ukraine what it needs to keep these Russian thugs at Bay and to regain their country Madam I endorse entirely his comments about Mr Nani’s courage and

Also the sense of hope that he gave people in Russia because of that courage uh he asked about Ukraine of course we seek to lead by example in terms of increasing ing our contribution with regards to lethal Aid as well as humanitarian support and I think our Collective response in the NATO context

Also shows that if Putin thought he could walk into Ukraine and conquer the entire country um he he was quite wrong in Blackford thank you madam Deputy speaker let’s call this what it is it is state sponsored Terror by Putin and his regime we know that Putin and his regime attempted to murder

Nali way back two years ago 3 years ago now with novich the same novich that was used against Sergei creal in the streets of the United Kingdom but the difference with the response today and what we saw then from the Prime Minister the right honorable member for Maiden head is that

We took action immediately not just us but our allies in Europe and in North America by expelling us diplomats as my honorable friend has already mentioned on the sanctions regime and the Maj jinsky sanction we need to act now Putin needs to get the message that we will

Stand up to Russian Terror why are Russia participating in the G20 Summit this week there needs to be a very clear message to Putin the only message that he will understand is that we will take the swiftest action against this International Thug I agree with his sentiment we are

Acting sanctions have deprived Putin of billions of uh dollars of Revenue to fund his War Machine and I we would never of course comment prematurely from the dispatch Box about future sanctions but we will continue to do everything we can to ensure that he is deprived the ability to wage his uh

Illegal and evil War har McCarthy thank you Madame Deputy speaker I would strongly support what people have said about the need for the minister to come back in perhaps a week’s time to tell us more about what action can be taken but can I ask him about what he said about

Working with the opposition to Putin um because because I know when I went out with um the Westminster foundation for democracy this was some years ago now but it’s actually incredibly depressing how little support we were trying to find allies that we could work with we just simply couldn’t amongst organized

Political parties I also went out for the Riot trial felt you know the the strength of feeling there but clearly they’re not people that we would work with on that sort of level so what can we do Navan is gone neu’s gone who can we work with to try to support

People who are opposed to Putin normal lady is right and she makes a good point um the tyrannical regime of Putin leaves absolutely no Civic or political space for any kind of uh Freedom expression or political engagement no matter how moderate what we can do is ensure that

Russian people have more access to the truth and better information and that’s why a lot of our energy goes into working against Russian def disinformation uh right across the region Alisa carich thank you speaker of the house and I think the whole country is easy eily and instinctively United in

Their condemnation of this latest evidence of Vladimir Putin’s brutality but is the minister not just a little bit uncomfortable that he makes his statement on the same day that his colleagues in the home office have announced restrictions on Visa access for those from Ukraine fleeing the war against Russia does he not understand

That we diminish the effect of our outrage unless we are seen to be doing absolutely everything at home and abroad to support our Ukrainian allies speaker I know from my own constituency and I think all members will know that our Collective response whether be whether it be from the

Government or local government level or indeed individual level has been consistently generous and aparted de Abraham thank you madam deputies speaker um I just wanted to to take the opportunity to um to put on the record and express my condolences to uh Lexi nal’s friends family and to the

Russian people as a whole Ian what has happened uh to Nal is uh an indictment on any freedom loving um people which I believe the majority of Russians are um my colleagues have said about coming back um to the house and I hope the minister will will hear that because we

Are very very keen to to understand the effectiveness um of of these sanctions um because currently Putin seems to to to be standing with an impunity and doing what he wants with impunity I think that the the the documentary on nalni uh was very powerful and in one of

His last statements it was you know it only takes good people to do nothing uh for people like Putin to survive we must make sure that doesn’t happen grateful to she put her finger on a very good point which is that Nal essentially gave people hope and that’s

Why his message will resonate that’s why despite his murder he leaves a very very powerful Legacy which I think will uh continue to inspire the Russian people uh Steve Ferry thank you the the murder of Alexi naldi reminds us of the the scale of the threat uh from Russia

Not least to Ukraine with the course of the second anniversary of Russian invasion uh this week following up on the on the question in terms of the Ukrainian family scheme how can this possibly be justified in this context or indeed at all uh given the ongoing threat to Ukrainian families this

Announcement was sneaked out today it comes into immediate effect uh this afternoon so how could we justify this particularly given that there are Ukrainian families who want to be unified with with relatives back in the UK Madam speaker I think he will know that actually he should address that

Specific question uh to the home office he he mentioned the second anniversary of the illegal invasion of Ukraine and actually earlier today had a very good meeting with the Ukrainian Char Affair at which we looked at images of uh the Ukrainian Red Cross uh delivering Aid in

Some of the worst Afflicted uh cities uh of Ukraine and each member in this house will choose how to remember and commemorate the second anniversary but I’m grateful for him raising it Andrew bridon thank you madam Deputy speaker I’d like to express my condolences to the friends and family of

Alexa Nali but can the minister explain why we can have a statement in this house on the timely death of one foreign National but we can’t have a statement on the ongoing excess deaths of 100,000 of our own citizens um many of whom have have died suddenly is it because this

Death fits the government’s narrative but the death of our own citizens doesn’t or is it a parody of staling where one death is a tragedy but 100,000 deaths is just merely a statistic well I think the honorable gentleman has answered his own question Madam I thank the minister very

Much for for his answers and uh my thoughts are also with the the the family the wife and the children the friends of Alexa Nali at this difficult time what one thing that uh uh some citizens in Northern irland can resonate with is a fear of the disappeared and

How there are so many families who have not been able to lay their loved ones to rest that’s very apparent in the news story today where the mother is trying to to uh uh make access or get access to her son does the minister agree that all

Efforts must be made to ensure nal’s body is returned to the family so they can understand a full investigation and can lay their love one to rest Madam speaker The Honorable gentleman is right he’s absolutely right in what he says that’s why our ambassador has made that representation directly to the Russian

Government today they must release Mr Nani’s body uh back to the family and we will keep making those representations until that takes place I thank the minister for his statement and we now come to as as Personnel change sitting there we now come to what to state M Minister Chris

Philp with permission Madam Deputy speaker I will make a statement on anti-Semitism in the United Kingdom last week the community security trust published its latest report on anti-semitic incidents it made for deeply disturbing reading it showed there were 4,13 instances on of anti-jewish racist hatred recorded across the UK in

2023 that is the highest annual total ever reported to the community security trust it is a 147% rise from the 1,662 anti-semitic incidents the previous year and 81% higher than the previous yearly record of 2,261 incidents reported in 2021 most shockingly over 2third of the incidents reported last year occurred on

Or after October the 7th when Hamas perpetrated its barbaric terrorist attack on Israel the report also indicates that anti-Semitism began spiking before Israel’s military response had begun the week immediately following October the 7th saw 46 anti-semitic incidents reported to the CST higher than any subsequent week week Madame Deputy speaker the cst’s

Findings which tally with increases in offending reported by the police are nothing short of a disgrace and an outrage examples highlighted in the report are shocking and reprehensible I urge all members to read the report because it shines a light on the scale and character of this disgraceful problem the only reasonable conclusion

To draw is the members of Britain’s Jewish Community are suffering a level of hatred and abuse which is frankly shameful there is no excuse for the behavior outlined in the CST report or seen in some of the shocking incidents that have occurred recently the situation in the Middle East does not

And will never give anyone the right to harass or intimidate others I repeat Madame Deputy speaker no one ever has that right this government will not stand for anti-Semitism of any kind it is important to note that police have comprehensive powers to deal with a Boren conduct of this nature for example

In the case of public order offenses where there is proof of racial or religious hostility on the part of the offender offenders will be charged with racially or religiously aggravated versions of those offenses which will result in an uplift being added to their sentence furthermore inciting racial

Hatred is an offense under the public order act 1986 and anyone engaged in that appalling behav should expect to be arrested whenever and wherever criminality involving anti-Semitism occurs this government expects the police to fully investigate the incident and work with the crown prosecution service to bring the perpetrators to

Justice Mr Speaker Madam Deputy speaker we have been clear both before and since the October 7th attacks that we will do whatever it takes to keep Britain’s Jewish Community safe we’ have taken strong steps to confront the poison of anti-semitism head on we have increased funding to bolster security at Jewish

Schools synagogues and other sites this means a total of £36 million will be made available for these crucial protective measures across 2023 24 and the following Financial year the community security trust is an essential partner in our efforts to keep the Jewish Community safe and I pay tribute

To them and the brilliant work they do the home office meet regularly with them and we cooperate closely with the CST we keep a constant dialogue open and I can tell the house that both the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister have regular meetings with them but of course

It should sadness that these kind of precautions are necessary in the UK in 2024 but the work of organizations like the CST is more important than ever and we must remain Vigilant that includes sending the message from this house I hope across the whole house loud and clear that any instance of criminal

Behavior will be identified and those responsible caught and punished we are working closely with the police to ensure offending including hate crime and expressions of force for terrorist organizations are met with the full force of the law the idea that anyone could celebrate or valorize Hamas for the appalling atrocities the

Terrorist atrocities they perpetrated on October the 7th is beyond comprehension it goes completely against the values of this country last month we prescribed his an organization that actively promotes and encourag terrorism and is responsible for spreading anti-Semitism Hamas itself of course is already a prescribed organization anyone who belongs to or

Invites or expresses support for a proscribed organization is themselves committing offense the penalties upon conviction are a maximum term of 14 years in prison Andor an unlimited fine the right to protest of course is a fundamental Al part of our democracy but that right cannot be exercised in a way

Which intimidates others or in invokes fear in them it is totally unacceptable where a small minority incite hatred and commit primes the police have powers to deal with that and we expect them to act where further powers are needed we will not hesitate to act which is why we

Recently announced a new package of measures to crack down on dangerous disorder in particular that committed at protests Madame deput speaker the cst’s findings on incidents within the sphere of higher education were especially disturbing no one should be subject to anti-semitic abuse while at University every effort must be taken to

Prevent hatred flourishing in schools universities and colleges and that is why we announced a further 7 million of funding to help tackle anti-Semitism in education Madam speaker I want to be clear we are equally unwavering in our stance towards hatred and abuse directed at British m Muslims the government has

Been in regular contact with representatives of the Muslim Community and we are aware of an increased number of reports of anti-muslim hatred as well that is of course unacceptable and we’ve made additional funding available for protective security measures at mosques and Muslim faith schools Madame Deputy speaker last month

We marked Holocaust Memorial Day just as we remember the horrors of the past we must remain alert to present day dangers anti-Semitism is ancient hatred which has reared its ugly head in the most abor and evil ways throughout history the cst’s findings show that we have

Much much more to do if we are to rid our society of this poison but this government will never stop trying we will never give up on this fight it matters too much and of course that extends to ensuring members of parliament are protected from acts of similar hatred uh which some members

Have suffered I’m thinking particularly um of the member for Finchley and gold as green in the chamber whose office suffered a terrible Arsen attack just a few weeks ago to the anti-sites we say this you will not win you will be shown up for the Despicable racists you are and to

Our Jewish friends and colleagues I say this we stand with you we understand your fears and we share your pain we will protect you today tomorrow and always I commend this statement to the house uh shadow Home Secretary IET Cooper thank you Madame Deputy speaker can I welcome The Minister’s statement

And advanced site of it the appalling and intolerable rise in anti-Semitism that we have seen in Britain in recent months set out in the report of the community security trust last week is a stain on our society we must never relent in our work to root it out

Something I know the whole house will want to airm over 4,000 incidents in 2023 alone are a rem urgent reminder of the responsibility on all of us to Stamp Out the scourge of anti-Semitism wherever it’s found and I want to join with the minister in thanking the CST

For the remarkable and tireless work they do each day alongside the police to keep our Jewish communities safe having supported and worked with them over very many years I know the incredible forensic work they do on monitoring and anti-Semitism but also the physical protection that they provide for Jewish

Schools synagogues and other community events we owe them our thanks so we welcome and support the government’s commitment of additional funding for the CST there are incidents that they report include a violent abusive attack on a Jewish man on his way home from synagogue the desecration of Jewish cemeteries a 200% increase in

Anti-semitic incidents at universities and just 10 days ago we saw a Jewish student residence in leads the Hillel house vandalized with anti-semitic graffiti for the years that they are studying universities are students homes no one should ever feel unsafe in their home but wherever they are everybody has a right to live in

Freedom From Fear and the cst’s report also found the number of online incidents of anti-Semitism Rising by 250 7% an ancient hatred being resuscitated through Modern means to proliferate and to promote extremism and I agree with the minister that it is unconscionable that one of the steepest surges in

Anti-Semitism came in the week following hamas’s barbaric terrorist attack on Israel on October 7th the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust with individuals in this country celebrating those scenes of unimaginable horror there must be zero tolerance for the glorification of prescribed terrorist groups on Britain streets we support the

Prescribing of hisb terer and also ensuring that anti-semitic hate crimes always face the full force of the law M Deputy speaker in the weeks following the 7th of October I met with CST and Tel Mama together Tel mama who Monitor islamophobia and who have also identified a huge increase in

Islamophobic incidents and Hate and they were United in their call for an end to hatred and Prejudice an end to anti-Semitism an end to islamophobia and we must never allow the terrible events and conflicts in the Middle East which do cause deep distress across our communities but we must never allow them

To lead to increased tension hatred Prejudice abuse or crimes here in our communities at home and so I welcome the points the minister made about ensuring where there are extremist incidents on marches that those are also addressed with the full force of the law but can I

Press him to go further in a few key areas firstly the countering extremism strategy is now eight years out of date uh there are reports that the work has been delayed again can the minister tell us when the government will come forward with an updated strategy the Metropolitan Police Commissioner the

Government’s own experts have warned there is a gap in the law around hateful extremism which is allowing toxic anti-em views and conspiracy theories to be spread and making it harder to police them I have asked this of ministers before can he update us on what action is being taken will the government also

Look at urgently again at the decision that ministers took around a year ago to downgrade the reporting for non-crime hate incidents particularly around islamophobia and anti-Semitism to ensure that those who engage in violent V rolic religious hatred can always be properly monitored and identified by the police

And I ask him finally particularly about online anti-Semitism which has risen we’ve seen for example a huge increase on X formerly Twitter at the same time as there’s been seen a downgrading in some of their monitoring and standards has the government raised this directly

With Elon Musk and x and can I urge them to do so and to set out how the online harms bill would address this because there are real concerns that this will not go far enough to address these changes We Stand ready to work with the

Government on this I think all sides of the house will want us to stand together with Jewish communities across the country in solidarity against hatred against prejudice against anti-Semitism in all its forms all of us must stand together and say anti-Semitism must never have any place in the United

Kingdom minister well I thank the shadow Home Secretary for her comments and her questions uh she asked about protests I completely agree that where people uh seek to intimidate others where they seek to incite racial hatred where they seek to um glorify terrorism uh that is completely unacceptable in fact it is

Illegal uh the police have made 600 arrests at Pro protest since October the 7th and we in government are urging the police to use all of their powers to make sure uh hatred is not incited in the course of the marches that have happened uh she asked about Online

Safety quite rightly it’s where a great deal of hatred is fermented uh we are engaging with online platforms on a very very regular basis in fact I think the Home Secretary is due to travel to California uh next week to discuss these issues amongst others but the Online

Safety act uh contains I think in for memory in schedule 7 a list of priority offenses and I think uh inciting hate hatred is one of those priority offenses and in relation to those priority offenses large social media platforms will when that section of the ACT comes

Into force be under an obligation to uh take proactive steps not not retrospective uh steps after the event but proactive steps in advance to prevent priority offenses taking place and that will include hate crime of the kind that she mentioned uh she asked about non-crime hate incidents um so

That is those changes to the guidance were designed to make make sure um the sort of very minor spats between neighbors or expressions of essentially legitimate political views do not end up uh wasting police Time by getting recorded uh things that don’t meet the criminal threshold where they might be

Useful in pursuing a criminal investigation later will still be recorded and to be clear um inciting racial hatred uh is a criminal offense under I think sections 17 and 18 of the public order act 1986 uh causing harassment alarm and distress through threatening an abusive language uh or

Causing causing uh fear of violence uh is an offense under sections 44 a and 5 of the public order act 19 uh 86 and there thank you and there are various other criminal offenses as well so uh those meet those things meet the criminal threshold and therefore make

Are not affected by any change um to non-crime hate incident recording rules in any event in relation to updating the law and the extremism approach to extremism um that is something that is under continual uh review my uh rable friend the Delux secretary in particular

I know uh spends a great deal of time and is spending time uh considering the question of extremism in relation to criminal law uh we announced various changes just a week or two ago that we intend to legislate for Vi government amendments to the criminal justice bill

When it comes back to the house report stage in a few weeks time and those measures will tighten up a number of areas relating to protest including removing the reasonable and lawful excuse defense to various public order uh offenses uh making it easier for the police to have a blanket prohibition on

Face coverings which are often menacing but also make it difficult to identify people committing criminal offenses at protests uh making it off an offense uh to climb on key War memorials which is grossly uh disrespectful and other measures um as well uh we keep it under continual review so if there are further

Changes to the law um the rable lady can be assured we will make them it is this government’s view um that anti-Semitism is a scourge that must be fought online it must be fought on the streets through the law and through the courts and I’m sure this whole house will be United in

That fight suel BR thank you speaker I want to thank my right friend for his hard work and genuine commitment to seriously tackling this issue and I was pleased to work with him last year with CST but the reality Madame Deputy speaker is that the Jewish Community has been demonized

And targeted is scared and has been let down by the authorities the Jewish Community needs its Champions and friends to speak in its defense without fear or favor Lord Ian Austin who sits in the other place is one such courageous Advocate who has campaigned for decades against anti-Semitism and

Islamism does my right honorable friend share my deep concern about organizations like Midland heart which has suspended Lord Ian Austin as its chair merely for his speaking against Islam is M against terrorism and against anti-Semitism well firstly um Madam speaker let me pay tribute to the work

Uh of the my right honorable friend uh the member for faram um during her time as Home Secretary we work closely together and I can tell the house uh the Jewish Community has no uh Stronger Advocate or had no stronger advocate in in government um than she was uh on

These issues particularly um during the events of the autumn in relation to uh Lord Austin uh I do agree with what she said I’ve read the tweets that he sent and it strikes me there is uh nothing unreasonable about them he was criticizing uh islamism which is a form

Of extremism that is not the same as the Muslim Community more widely obviously as everybody knows and I don’t think that the uh actions proposed by Midland Hart are in the slightest bit reasonable and I joined my right honorable friend uh the deu secretary in urging midlin

Hart to urgently uh reconsider what they have done Lord Austin is a tireless campaigner Against Racism uh was a great servant of this house when he was here and does not deserve the treatment he has recently received SNP spokesperson Ronnie coward thank you very much Madame Deputy

Speaker and I thank the minister for for sight of his statement the sharp right and anti rise and anti-Semitism and islamophobia in UK is extremely concerning and the S&P extends our heartfelt sympathies to victims of anti-Semitism and all forms of of hate crime but regarding this statement here

Today I see RIT bold funding to Bo of security caught and punished to full force of the law maximum 14 years an unlimited F none of which I disagree with in any way shape or form we need to implement the law and we need to implement it robustly but I’m a little

Bit concerned there’s only one line in the statement which talks about education and that say7 million in education i’ like say through education because surely through education we can eradicate anti semitism through incarceration it becomes a lot harder part of Scotland St is our diversity we value Scotland’s Jewish communities and

Other diverse faith and belief communities we recognize the important role that they play in making Scotland a safer stronger and more inclusive Society where everyone can live in peace and work to realize their potential in June 2017 the Scottish government forly adopted the international Holocaust membrance Alliance IH definition of

Anti-semitism formally adopting the IH definition of demonstrates the Scottish government’s determination that there should be no place in Scotland for any form of anti-Semitism or religious hatred that makes our communities feel insecure or threatened in their daily lives the Scottish government has recently published hate crime strategy

Sets out a strategic PR priorities for tackling hate crimes including anti-Semitism it was informed by the communities with lived experiences of hate crime and makes a number of commitments including ensuring Improv support for victims improving data and evidence and developing effective approaches to preventing hate crime if

We’ got one ask Minister would be that we reconsider how much money we’re putting into educating people so that we can all eradicate this penous crime Minister well The Honorable gentleman asked about education and I did make clear in my earlier remarks um that in the Autumn statement on November the

22nd the government did announce a further 7 million PS of funding to help tackle anti-Semitism in education and support ensure supports in place for schools and colleges um in addition to that on November the 5th since he asked about education on November the 5th the Department of Education uh did announce

A five-point plan to protect students Jewish students on University campuses uh which included a call for visas to be withdrawn from International students who incite racial hatred uh asking Vice chancellors to act decisively against staff and students involved in anti-Semitism meeting the office for students uh the independent regulator uh

To find out what more it can do uh to make clear that where there is anti-Semitism and racial hatred incited on campuses that should be referred um to the police and to explore an anti-Semitism Charter in higher education so I do accept the point that education is important education at

School and at universities um but that is something where the D the Department of Education uh in relation to England is taking a lot of action I would certainly urge the developed administrations in Wales and Scotland to do the same to my Lis thank you much vicious campaigns of anti-Semitism are

Occurring in many universities in this country and some Jewish students have visited me to tell me about it uh and it is bone chilling some of these accounts the failure of the Metropolitan Police to deal with some of the fascist style races in the London marches has been a

Historic disgrace that has Unleashed more attacks the aggressive hounding by protesters of MPS especially labor MPS out campaigning and a conservative colleague at his home is a real threat to the Democratic process but my concern to the minister is this now um reports of a magistrates Court Judge liking an

Anti-semitic post on social media having passed an extremely lenient sentence on protesters convicted of terrorism offenses this judge apparently trains other junior members of the Judiciary and is involved in judicial appointments of other judges shouldn’t that result in a full deep investigation with a past docket of cases being checked for bias

And potential suspension pending the interim report Min well I thank the gentleman for his question I think ministers are very clear that where on marches Behavior crosses the criminal threshold inciting racial hatred uh causing a fear of harass harassment alarm and distress to give a couple of examples terrorism offenses glorifying uh prescribed

Organizations we do expect the police to take robust action we do expect the police to make arrests they’ve made about 600 arrests so far in fact some police officers some Brave police officers uh were injured in the course of trying to make an arrest in London uh

Just on Saturday in relation to his point about members of parliament I would Echo and strongly endorse the point that he made no Member of Parliament democratically elected representatives of the people should be subject to harassment or intimidation we’ve seen as he said some labor um MPS receiving that it’s completely

Unacceptable uh we’ve seen the incident at the office of my honorable friend the member fin in gold as green completely unacceptable I believe in that case some arrests have been uh made and of course my rable friend uh the member for Bournemouth um East uh who uh suffered a

Terrible incident at his home address just a few days ago all of that is unacceptable all of that is illegal and I expect the police to not only protect MPS but identify and arrest the culprits afterwards now in relation to the judge the Judiciary are of course independent

And matters of judicial conduct are subject to investigation by the judicial conduct investigation office and from the account of the incident that I’ve heard and that I’ve heard my right honorable friend give uh this is the kind of thing I would expect the jci to be investigating chair of the home Affairs

Select committee Dame Diana Jones thank you madam Deputy speaker um as the minister knows the home Affairs select committee has been carrying out an inquir into the policing of protests and we’ve been particularly appalled to hear evidence of the huge increase in incidents of anti-Semitism perpetuated

In the wake of the 7th of October terrorist attacks and the CST um recorded anti-Semitism incidents last year 43% explicitly referenced the Israel Palestine October the 7th attacks um and the conflict in Gaza so we know that uh attacks on Jewish Muslim communities here in Britain in response to overseas conflicts are never

Acceptable and I wondered if the minister could say something about what more could be done to stop the exploitation of these overseas uh conflicts and the effect it has on our community cohesions and communities in this country Minister well I think the chair of the home Affairs select committee

Asks a very good question um it does deeply disturb me personally I’m sure it disturbs many members to see conflicts that are occurring elsewhere in the world played out on our own streets and leading to to put it politely tension but a lot a lot more than tension often

Hatred being incited domestically as I said there is no excuse whatsoever for the events in the Middle East in uh Gaza uh to lead to anti-semitic hatred on the streets of the United Kingdom it’s completely unacceptable uh and I’m disturbed to see people engaging in that

Kind of behavior I think what we need to do as political leaders across the house is to make clear to our own communities that that behavior is not acceptable that it is not consistent with British values and that the laws we have will be very rigorously and robustly enforced we

Have values here of of Tolerance of mutual respect uh we obviously abore terrorism we abore violence we abore intimidation and I’m sure I speak for the whole house and I say we don’t want to see that anywhere on our streets and no one no matter how strongly they feel

About what’s happening in Gaza should be uh behaving in a way that is intimidating or that incites racial hatred I think if all of us across this house speak unanimously with one voice on that topic it will be heard by all communities in this country Andrew Percy

Speaker I think when British Jews woke up on October the 7th to the pgms and the associated rapes but of children and hostage taking what we expected was sympathy from people on the streets of Britain instead what we’ve seen is people attacked for speaking Hebrew we’ve seen Jewish businesses attacked

We’ve seen Jews assaulted and then we’ve seen hate marches on our streets we saw again this weekend where the fellow holding the sign reminding those Marchers that hamasa a terrorist organization is the one who was dragged off and had his color felt by the police whilst uh people are continuing to March

Through um the streets with with cries for Jihad in tadas and in support of the hooes so it’s all fine what everybody’s saying in this place but the reality of the situation is the demonization of the world’s only Jewish state is playing out in the demonization of Jews in this

Country the embedding of anti-zionism which in and of itself in many cases is pure Jew haate in our universities is been wrought on Jewish students so it’s fine to have the measures that have been outlined but there is a deeper problem in our soci iety here Jews do not feel

Safe in this country and more must be done to tackle the real root cause of Jew hate Minister well look I mean I I was as as appalled as my horable friend when the reaction from some people a small minority but nonetheless deeply disturbing to what happened on October

The 7th was Jubilation I mean that is that is uh sick it is unacceptable uh depending on how it’s expressed it’s frankly also illegal because encouraging acts of terrorism uh is a or acts by prescribed organization which Hamas is uh is obviously a criminal offense as I said already there is no

Excuse whatsoever for that kind of behavior and I was as sickened as he was as sickened I’m sure as the whole house was to see that some people some of our fellow citizens reacted apparently with Jubilation instead of with horror and sympathy uh to what happened on October

The 7th Look in relation to the police response as I say 600 arrests have been made uh at the various protests that have followed October the 7th uh we have met with police repeatedly I’ve lost counted the number of meetings we’ve had uh with the police in the last three or four

Months uh to urge them to use the full extent of the law and to show Zero Tolerance uh to people who break the law and who incite racial hatred and you know as I say 600 arrests have been made in relation to individual incidents there is sometimes more to these than

Meets the eye but I will be asking for an account uh of the incident that he just referred to but he’s absolutely right to say that no member of the Jewish community on the streets of Central London at universities at school to suffer fear and intimidation the

Truth is that particularly in the last few months they have suffered fear and intimidation that is unacceptable we will we expect the police to use the full force of the law to stop it and I know this house will speak with one voice in unreservedly condemning ites philas will the minister agree that

The attack on my constituency neighbors office in Finchley and Gold’s green was utterly unacceptable it’s an attack on democracy and it is a great matter of sadness that this Parliament will use a fantast lose a fantastic MP because of intimidation associated with his being prepared to stand up for his Jewish

Constituents and stand up for isra well I I thank my rable friend for that question um and I’m pleased to to report to the house that um arrests have been made in relation to the appalling attack on my horable friend the member Finch in golders Green’s office and I

Understand that the perpetrators are currently uh on remand in prison um but it is a tragedy that uh someone with the exemplary track record of Public Service my honorable friend the member finishing Goldis green uh feels that he is unable to stand again for Parliament partly as

A result of the intimidation that he suffered in particular the arson attack on his office uh he has been as I’m sure members across the house will acknowledge a Fearless Advocate on behalf of his many Jewish constituent constituents uh it will be a loss to them and a loss to Parliament uh

Following the next election which he won’t be uh contesting and I think it is incumbent on all of us to make sure um that no other members end up feeling that way because I don’t want to live in a country I’m sure none of us want to live in a country where democratically

Elected representatives feel any form of fear or intimidation that is not how democracy Works in this country we settle matters at The Ballot Box not through intimidation uh tactics or violence on the streets and that is a principle each and every one of us must to our last breath

Defend uh I do apologize I took two members from this side so I’ll now take two members from the other side Dane Margaret hod thank youer can I firstly welcome the very strong statements being made by the minister and the strong statements being made by the shadow Home

Secretary and can I say that I really do hope that uh in tackling this deep-seated anti-Semitism which my uh which The Honorable member referred to that we can work in a United Way across the house and not seek to make cheap political points on on any individual uh

Cases um Can we’ve had attacks on Jews theaters in London we’ve had attacks on Jews as other honorable members have said in campuses particularly in Leeds and Birmingham and we have had as The Honorable member of Northampton North said a judge failing to penalize three people for glorifying terrorism in

London so people are worried across all sorts of sectors across all sorts of locations and in all sorts of areas across our country that that anti-sanctions and spreading I just wonder the government’s response to this needs to be coordinated and I wonder if the minister can say when a new hate crime action

Plan will be published given that the last one despite consultation on the interim was published some five years ago Minister well I share the right ladies horror at the various events highlighted in the community security trust report uh incidents like at the theater where uh a Jewish man was

Essentially handed out a dis disg graceful and Despicable act which has no place in a civilized society like ours she mentioned the case um that the rable gentleman the member from Northampton North the former Attorney General raised and I spoke to the current attorney general earlier today and I understand

The crown prosecution service are reviewing that case as well um because uh it deeply concerns me as I know it concerns her as well in relation to uh strategy um that is something I know that the uh Community secretary in relation to extremism the community secretary um continues uh to consider

But the approach the government has taken is one of action rather than words they’re legislating via the online safety act for example which as I’ve said to the shadow Home Secretary a few minutes ago contain some very strong measures and she and I when I was technology Minister uh discussed at some

Length um the measures in that bill needed to uh combat hate based in fact on some of her own um terrible experience es that that she suffered of anti-Semitism I’ve talked about the increased funding for the community uh security trust I’ve talked about the department of education’s plan in

Universities and schools the extra money for the Holocaust Memorial trust so the government is is taking action rather than simply uh expending more words um but I know this is something the community secretary is extremely alive to Monera Wilson thank you Madame Deputy speaker sadly we’ve seen a trebling of

Anti-Semitic incidents on University campuses between 2022 and 2023 the CST recorded 67 incidents on University campuses in the month following the horrendous attacks of 7th of October compared to just 12 in the same period the previous year and we’ve heard from other honorable and right honorable members about the terrible reports

Coming out of Leeds and Birmingham universities earlier this month of anti-Semitic graffiti and harassment of Jewish students which is why I and my liberal Democrat colleagues very much welcomed the seven million pounds that the minister has alluded to that the government announced in November to tackle anti-Semitism in schools and

Universities but since then we’ve had no update on how many applications have been made to that fund and how that money has been allocated so could the minister confirm to members when we’ll get an update on some of the many actions he’s outlined today and in particular that how that7 million pound

Has been allocated so far Minister um well I’d be very happy to come back to the The Honorable lady and other members uh with an update uh on that on that question uh obviously it’s an evolving situation um but I but I Echo her comments it is particularly concerning when universities the

Training ground for the Next Generation appear to have been uh hijacked by anti-semites in some places where Jewish students are being intimidated and harassed uh where Jewish societies have their meetings um you know uh picketed and where uh people stand outside uh shouting abuse and worse that is

Completely unacceptable and yeah I I think all of us again should support the department of education’s uh work on this and call on University Vice chancellors to show absolutely zero tolerance for this kind of behavior and to stamp on it hard wherever they find it Andrew Jones thank you very much

Madam Deputy speaker and can I thank my right honorable friend for his statement and join him in paying tribute to the work of the community safety trust but today however the most senior liberal Democrat counselor is harrion NB has been exposed for tweeting horrendous anti-semitic comments for the past 5

Weeks she had hundreds of followers including many senior local liberal Democrats she tweeted over 500 times on the subject and the tweets were read over 10,000 times so it Beggar’s belief that no liberal Democrat knew what she was saying they must have known but in the five weeks that she’s been tweeting

They did nothing until it was exposed to the media today so in our politics we’ve seen 19 an semitism in meetings we’ve seen it online we’ve seen it in Rochdale and now we’ve seen it in Harriet so does my right honorable friend agree with me that the political leaders need everyone

In every political party must act immediately if they encounter anti-Semitism in their midst and not wait to see if anyone notices yes well my honorable friend is is quite right of course it is particularly incumbent on political leaders from whom many other members of the community take their lead to act not

Just when it gets exposed in the media or when pressure bills but to act immediately not because it’s convenient but because it’s right and I think uh whether it’s the example that he gave in harut or indeed the recent example in Rochdale acting immediately from Principal is what counts not just

Reacting to public pressure a few days later chrisan wa thank you madam Deputy speaker Jewish people in my greater Manchester constituency have had to Ure 163% increase in anti-semitic hate crime as detailed in cst’s annual incidence report some of that is blatant targeting Jews other is much more

Sinister targeting zionists and when we see a banner saying Zionist not welcome we know what it means Jews not welcome let’s call it out for what it is anti-zionism is anti-Semitism the Jewish community in my berry South constituency benefited from the government’s additional £3 million to increase the already extensive

Security provisions and again I thank the government for doing so but will the government be prepared to continue this temporary funding and given the extensive threats to the Jewish Community consider making it permanent Minister well I completely agree with what the honorable gentleman just said uh very often anti-zionism is nothing

More than anti-jewish sentiment it is anti-Semitism we should call it out where it happens as he just did and he was quite right to do so in relation to the extra money for the community security trust and that will apply this Current financial year so that’ll be a

Three3 million P increase to £18 million in total it’ll apply next year as well so the financial year 2425 and it’ll be kept under review thereafter James Dy thank you very much uh indeed Madame Deputy speaker as one of the two members of parliament for the Metropolitan Bureau of berry can I

Support exactly what my colleague from Barry South said in respect of that and I think it is important we don’t want to cheapen this debate but how political parties deal with anti-Semitism within their ranks is crucial and sends an important signal to the country as to how this Parliament treats

This issue therefore does my right honoral friend share my disappointment and it is disappointment and genuine disappointment over the labor leader the right ownable member for H and St prank as weak flip flopping changeing position concerning the remarks by their now ex- candidate for the Rochdale byelection and these are remarks described by

Martin Ford Casey who compiled a report for the labor party on bullying sex ISM and racism within their ranks as clearly anti-semitic well I think as I said in response to the honorable member for har nbra a few minutes ago it is incumbent on political leaders particularly those

Who aspire to the highest office in the land to act quickly and from principal and I disappointed that it took a number of days after the comments of Labour’s former rotell candidate uh became public for the leader of the opposition to act I would suggest that he reflect

Soberly on that I’m sure I’m disappointed that it took so long I’m sure on reflection he’s probably disappointed with himself as well and it might be uh useful if he said so publicly Debbie Abrahams thank you madam Deputy Deputy speaker uh I I think that the figures from the CST are absolutely

Horrific um anti-Semitism is absolutely unacceptable hate crime including islamophobia absolutely unacceptable but can I ask the minister does does he think that there is sufficient capacity and uh within the police to be able to investigate the full range uh of of isues being raised and also what’s the

Role of the ahrc in actually preventing the Discrimination that can contribute to this hate Minister well I think there is enough resource in policing we’ve got as I may have said once or twice before uh record police officer numbers 14,500 or so reached in March of last

Year so we do have sufficient resources the police are prior izing this and they can of course work with the ehrc uh to take action criminal action where the ehrc identifies uh examples of anti-Semitism Julian Lewis following the Battle of cable Street against Mosley’s black shirts the 1936 public order act introduced

Measures that restricted severely the ability of Nazi type movements to march in predominantly Jewish areas uh is the minister satisfied that the police of today are sufficiently aware of the powers that they have to stop marches taking routes that go through the areas that are predominantly associated with a

Threatened Community Minister um yes I am and the police do it for example on Saturday there was a convoy planned from the north of England uh to North London uh many parts of which obviously have Jewish communities and the Police Stopped that Convoy because they were concerned learned uh that it would

Inflame uh tensions and that the Convoy was going to uh engage in uh intimidatory Behavior the police also have powers under sections 12 and 14 of the public order act 1986 to place conditions on both processions and assemblies where they feel it will lead to disorder and in fact they do use

Those conditions in fact they used them um at the weekend when the Marchers originally planned to go right up to the Israeli Embassy in Kensington but conditions were imposed uh to prevent them getting uh in undue proximity uh to the Embassy and in fact the member for

Kensington sitting next to me on the bench uh made direct representations to the police on behalf of her constituents raising concerns about that so yes the police do have those powers and they use them uh more than once as recently as this weekend Barry Gardner thank you sir

The minister will be aware that the largest Jewish school in Europe is in my constituency JFS uh and I want to thank the CST for their vigilance and service on behalf of all the students and their families now sadly only last month a student was physically attacked by a

Group of youths outside of the school those youths goed the student about the situation in Palestine so would the minister agree that nothing can justify such an attack on an innocent school child and does he accept that whatever one believes about the actions of the Israeli government racism and

Anti-jewish hatred must not be allowed to hide behind any political mask Minister well The Honorable gentleman is quite right the events in Gaza or indeed anywhere else in the world provide no basis or reason or excuse at all to inflict racist abuse on citizens in this country there is no justification

Whatsoever for anti-semitic attacks on Jewish people in this country uh because of what is happening elsewhere in the world and what happened to that boy outside the Jewish free school JFS in his constituency and what has happened sadly tragically to thousands of uh members of the Jewish community in

Recent months is totally unacceptable it is totally without excuse and uh the police should act to make arrests where that happens Dr Matthew offord thank you Mr Deputy speaker can I pay tribute to the community security trust who are actually based in the henden constituency for the work that they do

Not only the full-time staff but also the volunteers but sadly the amount of offenses that we have seen does not surprise Uris me the uh continued protest that we see on the Streets of London is simply normalizing anti-Semitism in the United Kingdom but what bothers me the most is University

Campuses more and more of my constituents are telling me that their children will not be going to University as a result of that 245 universities have adopted the IH definition of anti-semitism but others continue to refuse to do so does the minister agree with me there’s no logical reason why any Vice Chancellor

Would not do so Minister well well I I joined my horable friend the member fendon in paying tribute to the work the community security trust does uh to Mark Gardner its chief executive and to all of its staff volunteers and those people who fund raise for the CST it does work

That has I think never been more important than it is now I agree with what he said about universities I think I can see no reason at all why every Vice Chancellor why every University should not adopt the IH definition of anti-semitism and I call on them today

To do so uh there is no excuse whatsoever for failing uh to act and I endorse an echo the fivepoint plan set out by the department for Education uh to get this issue on campuses tackled it is deeply disturbing and I want to see Vice chancellors uh and other university

Leaders do a lot more to Stamp Out the scourge of anti-Semitism that is all too present on our country’s campuses thank you Mr Deputy speaker this weekend my heart broke seeing some 20 of officers and multiple police vans stationed outside my synagogue and that this was deemed necessary for our

Protection the conflict in the Middle East is being used to radicalize people against British Jews online in our schools and universities and on our streets additional security funding is welcome as is the funding for Education settings but what financial support and resource will be provided to local authorities for projects working across

Our faith and community settings at a local Grassroots level to bring communities together rather than allowing them to be driven further apart well she’s right to say that that Grassroots work is needed the7 million pounds I referred to earlier uh is is part of that uh and an organizations

Like the CST which obviously the government substantially fund or provide quite a lot of money to18 million pounds a year uh do work in this area good work in this area uh as well but I Echo her sentiment and that of others uh there is

No excuse there is no reason there is no possible justification for targeting Jewish people in this country and the full force of the law must come down on anyone who does that Chris Clarkson thank you Mr Deputy speaker I can’t have been the only one the weekend before

Last to have watched with a mixture of horror and incredulity as uh several labor front benches were sent out to justify retaining their Rochdale candidate only for 48 hours later their leader to reverse his position based on comments at a meeting and then praise himself for his decisive action

Then they had to suspend their candidate behind them for the comments at the same meeting if the right honorable gentleman the leader of the opposition is serious about having changed his party as he repeatedly claims does my right ownable friend agree with me that he should

Publish a full list of the attendees of that meeting a full transcript of what was said by whom so that voters in the Northwest can know who they’re voting for and what they actually believe Minister well my honorable friend is quite right and I agree with what he

Said uh the labor leader the opposition leader should publish a full list of who was at that meeting and a full transcript to show that he is serious about tackling anti-Semitism and I call on him now uh to do that uh he should have reacted much sooner it shouldn’t

Have taken 48 hours to suspend a candidate who had said obviously anti-semitic things I’m deeply disappointed uh by that unexcusable 48 hour delay but he now has a chance to make at least partial amends by publishing that list and Publishing that transcript Christin Jordan thank you

Very much uh Mr Deputy speaker and I welcome the comments today from the government in clamping down in this astonishing and worrying Spike we have seen in anti-semitic incidents since October the 7th anti-Semitism is vile it’s disgusting and it infects every area of society including sadly politics

And where we see it we need to root it out and remove people from the process to that end I have written to the right honorable member for Saffron Walden asking if we can have a cross party discussion on how we deal with the problem in politics because we can’t

Pretend that it doesn’t exist it does I wrote to her in November and I wrote to her again last week so can the minister please take forward that suggestion and see if she will convene a cross-party discussion on the issue Minister um well of course there

Are many uh apgs and other cross party groups taking an active interest in this area uh and of course I’m sure the home Affairs select committee will consider it um as well but I would be I think I’m going to see the member for saff mden at

Some point later on this evening so I will happily uh remind her about the honorable lady’s less Steve crab thank you very much Mr Deputy speaker I thank the minister for coming to the house and giving this very important statement this afternoon does he agree with me that even more alarming

Than the sheer number of anti-Semitic incidents being reported now on a daily basis is the way that there is this kind of creeping tolerance across so much of our national life so many of our institutions and the universities are just one example of this tolerance of a kind of acceptable level of

Anti-Semitism so long as it’s dressed up in a bit of Israel hatred does you agree with me that that is what we need to be focusing on tackling uh because at the moment as the CST report demonstrates we are moving in a very very serious and dark Direction as a country Minister yes

I agree completely with what what my rable friend just said we do need to show zero tolerance to uh all forms of anti-Semitism and I think he’s incumbent on everybody actually in particularly members of parliament but actually everyone in Civil Society University Vice chancellors teachers lecturers everybody yeah people in the workplace

Every single member of our society um has an obligation I think to call out anti-Semitism when they see it any racism when they see it um Because unless people willing to do that there is this danger that it creeps as the right honorable gentleman just said I think it starts with members of

Parliament doing that in our own constitu constituencies and doing it publicly that is what zero tolerance means it means never turning a blind eye it means never turning the other cheek it means never crossing the road and passing by on the other side it means always calling out anti-Semitism and

Racism wherever we see it and that I think is an extremely important message green thank you Mr Deputy speaker as been said as has already been said the CST report included those shocking figures about the rise in anti-Semitism uh in University settings and the union of Jewish students has

Warned repeatedly um about a climate of fear for Jewish students on campus and of course incidents in recent weeks will only have deepened that fear can the minister say a little more about what he and his government colleagues will do working with our universities to ensure that Jewish students can feel safe and

Secure during their time studying with us Minister well I think as we’ve discussed already uh members across the house are particularly concerned about what is happening in on University campuses and as I said previously a couple of times um the department for Education uh has a five-point plan which

They set out just a few weeks ago uh which includes withdrawing visas from International students who incite racial hatred and by the way I think anyone who is not a British citizen who incites racial hatred um or commits criminal offenses in this area um should be removed from the United

Kingdom people who come to this country need to respect our laws and respect our citizens and their rights and their dignity and people who are not British citizens should be removed uh either under the 1971 Immigration Act or under Section 32 of the borders act 2007 if

They incite racial hatred and I know my colleague the immigration Minister will take action there we want Vice chancellors to do more we’ve written to them asking them to do more more uh we’ve had meetings with the office for students the regulator to make sure they

Are doing more to clean up what is happening on campuses we’re doing more to make sure criminal referrals get made from universities to the police where anti-Semitism happens and as I’ve said already I think and the DFE thinks every single University should sign up to the irha definition of anti-semitism as well

Jonathan jogi thank you Mr Deputy speaker does my right honorable friend know that synagogues in the West End of London are being specifically targeted uh by these so-called protesters um and that not only is this happening once twice but on now multiple occasions to the extent that they’re even looking to

See what time the services finish so that old people the young parents so forth are being terrorized this isn’t supporting Palestine this is anti-Semitism this is attacking Jewish people and I hope that he’ll call in the commissioner and sort it out Minister well my honorable friend uh is

Quite right to raise this issue um Gathering outside a synagogue with the purpose of intimidating uh people coming out of the synagogue it’s completely unacceptable that is not protest it is deliberate intimidation it has no place on our streets whatsoever the police have substantial Powers uh to act in

This area I’m not going to recite all the all the various um sections and acts um but there are numerous powers that police have to act uh and in one of our regular meetings we have with policing leaders I think there’s actually one we’ve got coming up in just a few days

Time I will most certainly be raising this um if the honorable member of Huntington uh could just send me a couple of examples I would be very happy to raise those with the Metropolitan Police in the coming days Jim Shannon thank you Mr uh Deputy speaker can I

Thank the minister very much for for his statement for his robust answers and for his strength of purpose to support Jewish people across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland very clearly the minister is doing that the minister outline if discussion has taking place with the devolved administrations in particular Northern

AR assembly regarding a support fund for those who feel unsafe in their current homes and need help to move to a safe place bearing in mind uh the fact that we are now in a scenario where Jewish families are staying indoors afraid to go out unless it is absolutely essential

Due to so-called peace protesters who are making our streets feel unsafe for a sector of our community thank you Minister uh well there is nothing peaceful about deliberately intimidating Jewish people going to synagogues as we discussed just a moment uh ago and I’d be happy to look into the question of

Funding available for devolved administrations to do work in this area Bob Blackman thank you Mr Deputy speaker the shocking rise in anti-semitic attacks reported by the CST is bad enough the trouble is that was last year and the escalation has continued into this year and those people in London

Suffer the hate marches literally every Saturday with banned organizations displaying their Flags placards which are clearly anti-semitic vile slogans uttered and then after those so-called uh protest peaceful protests disperse they go and intimidate people in the restaurants bars and theaters throughout London so much so now that my Jewish

Constituents are afraid to go into Central London on a SAT

LONDON – Statement expected by Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Europe) Leo Docherty in British parliament after death of Alexei Navalny.
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