Alexis Bowen, Elsewhere by Lonely Planet
[Music] welcome to Soul of travel podcast I’m Christine and today I’m really excited to be sitting down with Alexis Bowen who is the founder of Elsewhere and this is a really fun conversation that I’m excited to have because it has come about through like one of my favorite hobbies which is uh coming the internet and especially LinkedIn for people whose post just speak to me and now because of the podcast I can reach out and be like oh my gosh I love that post I’d love to talk to you which is before earlier in my career I would just feel weird about that now this gives me the perfect opportunity to actually get to connect with women like yourself and hear your story and have a great excuse to do so so I’m really excited today Alexis to hear from you and share your journey with our listeners thanks for reaching out Christine LinkedIn is an amazing platform for that I’m so happy you found me through that yeah I feel like this is our my second conversation that is going to be totally linked in um infused and we were joking last time about needing a sponsorship but it might need to happen because I feel like I be I have become like the greatest advocate for LinkedIn but it’s really helpful I think for really meaningful Connections in the workspace and thought leadership it’s it’s a great I agree it’s a great platform yeah well excited to be here yeah thank you well to begin um our conversation I actually just want to turn it over to you first and invite you to tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and elsewhere and then we’ll dive into everything else more in depth as we go along great I’m Alexis Bowen I am one of the founders of Elsewhere we were recently acquired by Lonely Planet recently meaning about two years in a journey with them elsewhere is a Marketplace so sometimes we call ourselves the Airbnb of travel meaning that we link Travelers with local experts all over the world to plan personalized hyper curated trips perfect um well I can’t wait to hear more especially the entrepreneurial side but before we get there I want to hear a little bit about you and your experience in travel and I’m curious when did you first start traveling was this something that was throughout your life and you know your background or something that you fell into later on in your Journey yeah it’s a great question um so it’s actually interesting I took myself on my first international trip um my mom is definitely I got her Explorer personality from her she was always throwing us in the car and driving us to new places but you know my parents had us relatively young we were three kids on a carpenter salary international travel was not part of growing up it was not a reality for us so I always wanted to travel I always had that wand or less result always interested in hearing about people and places um that were so foreign and so different to me so when I was 12 years old I decided that I was going to make this reality I got myself a job totally illegally worked in a cafe um so funny I had to sign over these papers like I wouldn’t touch any knives or anything hot all of which like I dust manned the the espresso machine and set tables so I mean completely you know not what I was supposed to be doing as a 12-year-old but I worked for a year in this Cafe by the end of the year my 13th I was 13 years old and that summer I bought a ticket to England and Ireland and I went by myself got myself a passport flew across the world and I was staying with people that I roughly knew they were friends of parents they were friends of family that kind of thing and I went I went myself it was wild I looked back at it at 13 and can’t believe I did it oh my goodness that is so crazy and inspiring and I want my kids both to hear it and never hear that that opportunity um I don’t even know that it could happen now like there’s so many different things in place that would probably not allow for that to happen it’s I know it’s so funny I mean I literally boarded the plane by myself had very few questions but the funniest thing was my parents said okay you’re thinging with people you know and I had saved up some some cash for traveling around to be honest I hitchhiked a lot while I was there which is so wild as a 13-year-old but they gave me a case of wine I’m from California and they gave me a case of wine and they said okay for every person that you stay with you need to give them a bottle of wine so I red I landed at he thr by myself arrived at baggage claim to pick up my case of wine and Customs pulled me over and they’re like what is this and it’s like well it’s wine and they’re like how old are you and I said 13 and they’re like so you’re moving alcohol across International borders and they held me ACC customs and didn’t know what to do with me for a while and I had um it was my great uncle who was on the other side arrivals waiting for me who had no idea what was going on and finally they were just like we don’t know what to do with the 13-year-old and there this case of w let’s just let’s just let her go and so they they sent me out and it was now looking back on it it’s so funny because at the time I just didn’t understand what the big deal was yeah oh my gosh that’s that’s completely hilarious um I yeah I can only imagine and again trying to imagine my daughter who recently we were traveling and she had a bag of like my scratch hydration powder in her in her backpack when we were boarding and it like something set off at Customs when we were going through and they were like testing all the things and then they tested like possible explosives so then they like moved her to a different space pulled everything apart and she was just freaking out and then like they brought in dogs they brought in the bomb team and all of this was happening and she is just looking at me she’s like Mom what is going on and they like tested it and then the the man that did the like last test from the bomb squad came over and he was like you know all in black with his army boots and everything and he’s like so I have to tell you it tested positive and we both looked at each other and also it was half gone because I’ve been drinking it for you know like a couple months and he’s like positive for sugar you’re free to go and I was my gosh who does that that’s terrible he just terrible probably that’s how he gets his kicks just caring Travelers that’s so funny and so like imagining you standing there with this wine like she would die now anytime we go through customs she’s just so nervous that anything’s going to happen but I love that that you had that experience and I can’t imagine how empowering like in that moment you probably didn’t even realize that what you were doing was unusual right but looking back confidence that that like instilled in you without you but there’s a confidence that comes with like na you know I was I had no idea and I always had this like independent adventurous spirit I mean I think my parents would call it rebellious but I was like I can do this I I always you know wanted to get Everywhere by myself do everything by myself and uh yeah I don’t know it didn’t shake me that much and it wasn’t actually until many years after that I looked back on that and realized how silly that that whole thing was and you know how they just just let me go and I was a 13-year-old kid moving alcohol across International borders and thought that was there should be nothing wrong with that yeah but I wonder now like you know hindsight and knowing a little bit about your business which we’re going to speak more about how that kind of travel and going and traveling with family and I mean hitchhiking and on and like really seeing the country right like you yeah obviously we’re connecting with all sorts of people if that’s the way you were traveling around do you think that was something that shaped how you see travel and how you see like the possibilities of travel or connection or the importance of local people even when you’re traveling because early on you were really relying upon them for your experience absolutely I think staying with locals and being with locals is so important to having a good trip and a good trip can be defined to so many things but for me that’s like New Perspectives understanding different ways of life all of that you can travel when you don’t travel with a local you travel very surface you know you’re going and you’re seeing things and things are different but you’re not getting under the skin of a place and really having an understanding of what it’s like to actually live there and be a part of that Society um and so yeah that trip was was fascinating interesting um it was like the gateway drug of travel for me you know it was it was England it was I spoke the same language it was the perfect first trip for me and you know before College I took a n it really set me off after that I had I wanted to always have another trip planned and I took a series of really interesting adventurous trips after that that were all you know very foundational to my experience but really I needed that first international trip by myself to realize that I could do it and also that like people are so great on the other side people would just see me and I don’t know if it was because I was a young girl by myself or or what but you know people invited me into their homes and you know wanted to take me out and show me around and there was so much generosity and true kindness and excitement to see me doing this and and seeing their my own excitement seeing their world was was really cool for them yeah I love that because it it really facilitated that idea of exchange right so you it you were seeing both things through your eyes but like witnessing what it was like for them to host you and so like again like this idea that travel is about like immersion connection being a guest like those all seem so important in what comes later for you um absolutely I I would love to hear then from that how did you end up in the tourism industry was it a real natural you know progression Because You Loved travel so much or is it something that just kind of happens yeah you know I think looking back on it it was clear that I was I would always end up in trouble um I took a couple more really amazing trips before I went into college and then in college I studied International Development but I actually thought I wanted to get into the music industry I worked for a year at South by Southwest and I realized this is so not what I want to do you know it was it didn’t feel transformative in the way that I think travel is and I immediately came back got a job in in the travel industry and I honestly haven’t really haven’t looked back since yeah I I love how for some people it’s just literally like a part of our anatomy almost like it’s totally it’s something that you can’t get rid of and for me that was really where soul of travel came from is like witnessing that in people and then the podcast came out of the pandemic and and seeing like what were people doing now that they couldn’t travel like now that they’ve essentially lost like an essential organ how how do they go on being and seeing also like the love and care that my colleagues had for people all around the world and what they were doing to step up to continue to be connected and to provide support or look for the ways they could continue to have an impact during the pandemic like that’s what initially kind of lit the podcast like I wanted to say this is the soul of travel like it’s a really important thing it’s not just I can’t go on a vacation it’s like something is dying in our world because we’re losing this connection both for individuals and like a greater Community um and I know for you your business also was kind of birthed in this time so I’d love to hear from you like what was that moment like and where did that come from yeah so I had been working in travel with my co-founder and it was 2020 it was actually the summer of 2020 so we were living in Paris France and everything was completely locked down I know that everyone said the US was locked down things were closed but Paris was really locked down you weren’t allowed to leave your apartment um you could only leave for certain necessary items which were like Pharmacy and the grocery store and you had to time and date stamp the time that you went out and you could only go out for like an hour at a time you couldn’t go out with multiple people in your household one representative had to go out and come back I mean it was true lockdown there was a curfew on the town nobody could go out past 6: PM regardless of what was happening I mean it was truly truly wild and so we were at home you know everything the travel industry was basically in hibernation mode and we had worked with all of these amazing dmc’s so you are very familiar with this but for people on the podcast dmc’s are destination management companies and they’re essentially local travel agencies one people who live the companies that live in the country so a lot of people don’t know how the travel industry works if you work with an National Geographic or an abomi in Kent or any of these big tour operators they’re working with another Agency on the ground and so I had always worked in these luxury tour operators uh Geographic Expeditions now gox was one that I worked with in uh San Francisco they’re an amazing amazing tour operator a luxury provider they really push the boundary on exceptional travel and they’re still the gold star for me in terms of uh very quality travel they do some really amazing things um and so they work they have a team of travel advisers who then pass the the de the request on um and the trip on to a destination management company who handles that so anyways we had these this amazing network of travel agencies all over the world who are completely out of work not getting any pay um and saying like what is there anything we can do you guys know the American Market is there anyone traveling how can we make money when is this going to end and they’re coming to us for help um it was actually my co-founder’s idea and he said hey we we should start we should start something right now this is really the time to lay the groundwork build something new um we have all of these amazing people at our disposal because previously they’re all contracted and they work for these great companies and they’re too busy to take a chance on a new startup um but Co really gave us the chance to say hey we’re going to start something it’s going to be a Marketplace that cuts out the intermediary Travelers are going to work directly with you you can set your really Define what travel looks like in your destination set prices that are fair to you and fair to all of your suppliers um and you know communicate directly with Travelers and they were so excited about this idea um and they joined us and I think they joined us out of sheer desperation you know sure we’ll try it whatever we just need to get some kind of business but um it I mean now they’re they really see it as like the future of travel that there’s no need for intermediat it just be speaking directly with Travelers about um about the trips that they’re taking yeah I I think it’s so valuable and so important and I think um I also appreciate you kind of talking about the the structure of the industry because I think that’s what what I was really noticing in the conversations I was having is that people often would see just kind of like the tip of the iceberg right which is where they buy their ticket where they board a cruise ship where they meet with a agency like they just knew their experience but they didn’t know all of these pieces underneath that actually are what are the foundation of their experience and I think that those of us in the industry those are the people that we felt really connected to and absolutely and could see the impact like this meant like you were saying this meant their family lost all of their economic income they had no other choices because tourism was so people were so dependent on tourism in so many places around the world and so I felt like when I read what you were doing this model is really important for helping people see like below the surface so again not just having a deeper experience but like understanding where travel comes comes from is you know all these pieces that sometimes get erased in the tourism experience when you’re looking at bigger businesses absolutely we actually we call them the hidden Heroes of the industry because they are the ones who are actually building and operating these trips yet there they have no there’s no face you know of people don’t know who they are they don’t know what they’re doing it’s just masked under some Western tour operator’s name and so when we created elsewhere there was a lot of talk about you know usually Founders are at the the front of every company there’s our story what we’re about there’s their photos everywhere and CRA and I said this isn’t about us we shouldn’t have our bios on this website at all we shouldn’t have our faces on this it is about the people that we’re working with they’re the ones doing the amazing things and they’re the ones who have the Amazing Stories to Tell and who our Travelers will connect with and it is about fostering these connections with people in destination we talk a lot about traveling beneath the surface and like I said working with a local is is such an important way to do that yeah I think another term that um people might not be familiar with but definitely happens is white labeling so when you come in as an operator working with a local DMC they’re like I’m so happy to White Label this everything will come with your logo and I remember at first thinking oh that’s really interesting like when I first got into the industry thinking oh that’s how you know everything looks uniform and then when I launched my own business and I started reaching out to my contacts and they would say that and I was thinking gosh this is this feels so wrong to me like I actually spent a lot of time thinking about who I want to partner with and it’s because you are you and you are like the magic I’m like please don’t like yes people are coming with me they’re coming for you and I want you to be the Storyteller and I want you to be the like the shepherd through through your through this experience because I can’t do it that’s why I need you so again why like I was so drawn to the way that you were creating this exchange absolutely and and that and as well that they should be determining what travel looks like in their destination when you go with the Western tour operator they say hey this is what sells on a trip to Peru you need to do four days in the sacred Valley we want to have one day in Machu Picchu and then two days in the Amazon and you need to book these hotels and in the sequence and at this price which is complet I mean it one it doesn’t actually dictate how travel should look um they’re saying you know the sacred Valley is amazing but there’s actually these communities it’s so over touristed and there’s these other communities that that really show this way of life in a much more authentic way the Inca Trail you know you don’t want to do the Inca Trail because it’s you know switched back to the same exact View and it’s over tourist and there’s crash all over the trail you know all of these things are even much pich there’s there’s another site that’s that’s so much more off the beating path that doesn’t have the same footfall but you’ll have the same experience and the same understanding of a place and it’s its cultural significance so giving them the autonomy to determine what travel looks like in their destination means that the traveler will have a better trip themselves but also pricing I mean I don’t think we realize how much Western operators are squeezing suppliers by saying okay well no you need to make it this price and then they’re squeezing their entire supply chain whereas with our model our dmcs are local travel agencies are are are doing the sales and the operations for the trip so they’re incentivized to make the sale they want to make the sale so they’re honest with their pricing they’re fair in their pricing to be honest I don’t think they take enough but they’re still doing what they get to determine what is fair for them we’re not dictating the prices that they have to operate on and and we’ve all seen the horror stories of the industries of like sheras in Nepal and how little they’re getting paid and how much they’re being overworked and in unsafe conditions and underpaid and so this is the way to really put the microphone back in the community and say you show us your home country and you tell us what is a fair price yeah oh this is two such good things so I’m just thinking of all these events that I go to when I meet with other operators and and local dmc’s and trying to figure out who I might want to work with and you know they start putting together packages and they tell me like the conversation always starts like how much do you want this to cost per day and I’m like I again my brain is like how much does this cost per day like I don’t know that you’re the one that tells me the value of your experience right and like sometimes I get like like what quality of hotel are your guests looking for and that kind of thing and then that gives them an idea but I I often feel like that exchange doesn’t feel equal to me like I you wouldn’t go into the store and be like I’m only buying $3 of $3 per pound apples today like the store tells you how much apples cost and then you decide if you want to buy the apples or if you need to buy something else and so for me I I that was a also like kind of the spread flag about how things are structured and then the other thing I love that you were talking about is hearing the story that the the destination wants to tell you that the operators want to tell you like you’ll sit down at these meetings and you see like here’s the things that everybody buys and then maybe someone and especially for me like they look at my website and they are like Miss Christine I noticed like you really speak about this and I’m really excited this is something different can I share this idea I had and like that’s always the one right that’s the one I like this is Magic this is absolutely what I want to do because this you can tell like you can see like their their love or the this that they’ve been so excited about that nobody else really wanted to do or this area that isn’t Machu Picchu which again for me when I launched my business I had a Peru trip it’s not to Machu picu doesn’t include it and everyone was like well I think you’d really be selling more if you were offering Machu Picchu and I was like yes and I’m a small company I don’t want to sell more I want to sell this because of the impact it has so I think this is so I think it’s so important to be talking about this because I think this is how we can really create change and like Equity within the industry absolutely and and just on that point we always find that Travelers enjoy the more off the beaten path experience or the real life experience rather than the Machu Picchu or the Taj Mahal it’s the smaller towns it’s the having tea with somebody you know a chai on a roadside stand like those are the things that people remember and are truly the things that people carry with them not you know the ticket to the Taj Mahal or to Machu Picchu and you know onest discussion too and and what a big harm of the industry is cultural exploitation right and I think by not giving the destination the autonomy to determine these trips and how they should be seen is is I mean it it’s awful but a way to combat that is by giving them the microphone and the control to determine what it is and I think a lot of Travelers kind of don’t understand what what cultural exploitation is or you know how how to go you know how to how to travel better but um I guess if I were to Define it it’s like this tendency to trap people in these certain stereotypical or anti-modern ways and a lot of Western tour operators continue to to churn out the same kind of Storytelling that hasn’t progressed as people have progressed have things have modernized U they keep selling the same stories so it’s really about promoting this authentic exchange where people have the autonomy to tell their own story in their own way and I think it’s really something that we we feel and sense because I know for me early in my travel travels I would I would feel it and I would be like I don’t know what this is but it it doesn’t feel right like and and I’ve mentioned this before on the podcast but like we we also didn’t have language for it yet we hadn’t started to come up with all of these words that we’re now using to kind of describe that type of experience and like and we are evolving right as Travelers and as an industry and so now we have a way to talk about it and a way to kind of examine it and look for different experiences and so I think for travelers listening to this like that that moment like I think you’ll know what it is because it feels away and you’re like H I’m not I’m just not sure sure about what’s happening here and just to know that there’s a lot of people creating trips now who have felt that and are really conscious about ensuring that something different is happening when they’re travel absolutely absolutely um another thing I really wanted to talk to you and it’s kind of along this um this vein of thought as well is economic leakage which I think is again something that Travelers might not be aware of even people in the industry I think often aren’t thinking about what this looks like so I wanted to to ask you you know to Define it how you define it and then just talk a little bit about how we can maybe combat this yeah um economic leage is simply the act of money spent by tourists leaving the destination or leaving the host country so the UN says that is little as 10 to 30% of money spent on vacation is actually reinvested back into the destination which is wild you know we think that when we’re going all of the every single dollar that we spend is invested back into a circular economy and supporting you know the people the plates infrastructure all of that stuff in reality that is absolutely not the case and that’s primarily done to foreign ownership right so this is large hotel chains this is cruise ships um you know these big multinational hotels restaurants whatever that are not paying taxes in their home country um that the is literally just being transplanted outside um and the UN also says that 80% of low-income countries actually rely on tourism as a means of lifting themselves out of you know improving their economic situation and we know that just doesn’t that doesn’t happen uh and then actually you know in these developing countries they’re most negatively infected uh by tourism so it’s just this really sad catch22 where these are the countries that are relying on tourism to lift them out poverty in in reality they’re actually most negatively being affected and this really depends on destinations like some of the worst examples of course of the Caribbean and cruise ships where people are busted in they’re eating and spending all of their money on board and then they have the footfall on the islands but not actually spending any money on on the islands and the islands are welcoming them saying come we need your tourist dollars but they’re not actually they’re not actually supporting or you know giving any benefit to those host destinations yeah thank you for walking us through that and I was just in bise last week actually and visiting this little what used to be this little fishing Village that I’ve been going to for like 20 years and seeing how much it’s changed and actually you know being really aware that the conversation about the cruise industry and believe specifically has been a back and forth and this Village kind of was like the Last Frontier here you know they were really coming together as a community hoping to try to keep that from being a part of the tourism industry there because they didn’t have the in infrastructure to support it um they had seen where it brings in actually just more taxation on their their limited resources and not the economic benefit and like witnessing them in this dialogue over this amount of time has been very interesting but to also see how much it’s changed and how much the the community now is for tourism versus before and it was it was also really interesting because I was walking there’s just this like very small small sidewalk that you walk through this Village to see everything that’s there and one of my daughters said I’m really confused about this place is this a place where people live or a place where people travel wow what a great question yeah and I was like well I feel it right now like almost in here because I was like isn’t this the question and I was like yeah I said that’s so to observe that and I said this used to be a place that I felt like people lived and I got to travel to and now it feels like a pace where people travel to that some people live to support travel to support yeah yeah and so I I just think like I don’t really have a any solution to that but it was such a powerful awareness but I also saw like where they had built a new dock for faing in some Cruise visitors uh it’s very restricted I think compared to other areas but then they had like the booths on the dock and you knew those were the booths where people would go and buy their goods and those are being commissioned by the cruise companies right and W not actually bringing Travelers that far into the village and so I I think it’s just so interesting to start to look at that when you travel and in some places it might not be as black and white as it was there but to just be aware of your choices and I know one of the things that I also wanted to talk to you about is how can a single traveler have an impact and I think that would be a great thing to build off of this because this is really what we’re looking at is once you kind of understand some of these pieces then you’re like okay now what do I do so I would love to just kind of get your thoughts on what can we do to make sure that we’re having as much of a positive impact as we can if that’s what we’re seeking to do yeah um so there’s there’s a bunch of things an individual traveler can do if I was just going to sum it up I would say one go if welcome and two leave as little impact as possible so what does that mean like in practice a few practical things is one travel slower um so this really offsets the environmental impact if you’re just staying in one place longer but you’re also getting to understand the place better I know we all had come from this idea of like Euro Euro trips where you’re two days in every single place that that helps nobody um it is also not a good experience for yourself so travel Soler getting you know connect with community and cultures is really important um book locally owned we talked about economic leakage this is number one most important is is find places that are owned and off operated locally that are hiring local people that are paying Fair wages um that is is of utmost importance same with guides and drivers obviously local owned but also paid a decent wage you know um they have to have Fair pay safe working conditions over tourism we talked about this at your B example I mean this is so this is so important and for me this is the the number one thing that I look at over tourism really distorts the social contract between Travelers and local people and so I look at the ratio what is the ratio between Travelers and people who actually live there and not people who live there to support Travelers um and there’s you know travel off season these are these are just some really off obvious ones if you are going to go to those touristy areas travel off season visit main points of interest in off peak hours all of these things help to offset football um leave no Trace we talked about that that’s really like pack in pack out very obvious stay on Trails you know don’t degrade the environment in any way that is not absolutely necessary um I think this is such an important one but just be respectful and people don’t talk about this enough like learn the etiquette learn like just look up how people dress and what the cultural norms are you know this is about respect and I know a lot of Travelers want to wear certain outfits I see this a lot in Morocco um and it it just it kind of it hurts me that they’re dressing what is seen by the culture the local culture is disrespectful because they want a good photo in their outfit I mean this is just a big one for me um be mindful of of what people deem as you know as appropriate in that in that area and let’s just seeking out authentic exchange which we already talked about um dear clear of like cultural exploitation and you do feel that gut feeling but making sure that when you are exchanging with local people making sure that they’re able to tell their own story in their own way um and are autonomous they’re not being trapped in this this one often anti-modern stereotype yeah thank you so many so many good points there I really appreciate that and I the one that I feel like for me well actually I think all of these come back to the fact that you’re a guest like this I think is so important that so many people kind of have this like what happens Vegas mentality about travel right that there’s no rules they’re on vacation they’re traveling they’re free so their behavior has no there’s no accountability for it right and um I understand the idea of wanting to be free and relaxed but we are guests and I think if anything the pandemic showed us what a privilege or should have shown us what a privilege travel is that it’s not there it’s not a guarantee that it’s always there and that we need to really be respectful of this experience and all of the things that allow us to have this experience and then we’re in someone’s home and I I just think that that mindset shift is really important and the the cultural understanding I I think this it just breaks my heart to be someplace like I’ve been in these beautiful like sacred waterfalls in Bali and reading the signs all along the way that say like you know this is what this place means to us please use gentle language this is sacred land please you know all these things that are are telling us how to be the guest of this area and you get to the bottom and there’s people drinking and in thong bikinis trying to get like the insta shot and it makes me feel ashamed to be a part of the mechanism that makes this happen sometimes and also feel really passionate about like the conversation we’re having right now and how it is yeah I really love that idea of traveling like a guest of the destination go if welcome you’re invited act respectfully this is reciprocal you know um I think that’s that’s too much too often under resected um and I also think that people think that you know traveling in a sustainable way is you know maybe not necessarily means they’ll have a better trip but there are ways to State your wander L that don’t leave a place culturally and environmentally depleted and we need to remember that and it often leads to I think always leads to a much better trip and we need to ask ourselves if we’re being extractive in our tourism and in our travels and you know like I said traveling with locals frequenting local establishments this means that you’re going to have a better trip yourself you know you’re getting to the heart and soul of the destination and you’re having these immersive lifechanging experiences you’re seeing New Perspectives you’re coming you know home with a wider and more inclusive view so it is I like this idea of better trips for the destination better trips for you like a trip that is naturally sustainable responsible will also mean a better trip for you as a traveler yeah I fully agree and I think it’s just shifting what people people’s expectations out of travel and and and like you said realizing this doesn’t mean you’re getting something less it usually means you’re getting something more absolutely and I think the problem with like sustainable travel and talking about all this is there’s so many technical terms you know there’re sustainable there’s regenerative like and and E economic leakage and all of these things sound confusing and in reality there what happens is people are less likely to join the C because they don’t quite understand what it means and it is simple and we shouldn’t have you know the debate between regenerative and sustainable I often say is misguided you know sustainability is is not binary it’s a spectrum and there’s benefit you know there is benefits that looking at something regenerative versus Net Zero but this whole argument and debate about which one is better is just confusing the general public and meaning that less people are adopting these very simple principles yeah I agree um well I love this part and we have a little bit of time left but I really want to talk to you about your entrepreneurial Journey because I think this is something um especially in in watching your work that I think is really important and I want to tap into you um in this space so um I had recently had a conversation with my friend um Iris serbanescu and she mentioned something that a friend of ours shared with her that in this journey like never quit on a bad day and I also saw a post that you just shared um about Matador Network had written a written an article um and you had mentioned a startup is a bipolar existence and you can live or die on any one day and so I wanted to talk to you about this like I know you know this energy and I’m wondering how you navigate it and find your footing like in this up and down and roller coaster God it is such a roller coaster often say a startup is like dog years you know like a week is like a year and anything can change in that time and it’s so true um yeah it is it’s a roller coaster for sure yeah um so is there anything that you have experienced that like um that our our listeners might relate to as in terms of like things that were like big yeses or things that were NOS or things that you’ve learned learned to lean into through this entrepreneurial Journey that maybe you hadn’t learned up to this point in your career I guess I’d say two main things one if you’re going to launch a company you need Founders need to be irrationally exuberant you know you need to have this kind of irrational optimism about your company and truly truly believe that it’s going to work because you’re going to get knocked down time and again you have to get back up and start again and you need to wake up every morning and essentially make up answers to problems that you’ve never seen before that is what building a business is and I know you’re smiling because that is that is what it is um and don’t and I’d say second is just don’t don’t discount the hard work that goes into it I mean you need to be obsessed with it it needs to take priority if you’re actually going to make it work um and that was the benefit of us starting our company in covid was that we were actually locked down and we were working 12 to 15 hours a day and we could dedicate ourselves to a project like that whereas before I I think it would have been hard for me to shut off so much of my life to build something um but you need to put that much energy and attention and to keep to keep the momentum going um and I think momentum is just is so important always be moving to the next level you know and long days unfortunately are just a reality work life balance comes later but when you’re starting something you got to put in the time yeah I think it’s so um relatable to even what I was saying before it’s like this organ that just like it’s a part of you right and you you have to like hold on to it like it is or many of us do which I think is maybe good or bad because we’re so attached and invested to it or maybe even like you know I can relate to that so much this thing that you you birth right this is your your your baby also like you’re looking at the journey like when you have a newborn 247 it’s really like 477 right yes and so you you have to expect that this is it like this is what you are doing and um I I think also much like Parenthood you can’t understand it until you’re in it like yeah you don’t know what that feels like to be constantly on in your business and even if you’re not sitting at your desk you’re like something and then it happens and you’re like off to the next like 52 things you could make maybe do and they’re like oh wait a second I forgot this is what I’m doing so you’re you’re just like constantly circling in it and I I think it’s such a an unusual space that so many people can’t relate to if they haven’t been in it yes it takes a lot of grit a lot of perseverance yeah and I do think you have to be in love with it because if you don’t like you said you’re you’re gonna quit because man it is it is not easy and I think that a really hard part about that is is you’re you are constantly not knowing what you’re doing and most people aren’t comfortable with that like I just remember someone being like well what’s your SEO ranking for your website and I was like oh I think it’s average like get off the call and you’re like Google SEO what is that yeah totally totally I remember when um I did a trkking trip in in Nepal through the aneres and I came back and I was at like a family get together later that summer and and my aunt was just like I just don’t understand like how did you do it and I was like you just go and you just figure it out and that’s how I feel like building a business is like you just do it and you figure it out along the way like you don’t have anything planned out you don’t know what you’re doing you’re just like Step One open an LLC step two open a business bank account and it’s just checking off these things and like I said you know every single morning waking up and being like okay I’ve got this new problem I’ve never had how do I make up an answer and you realize that that’s what everyone running a business is doing you know and everyone’s like what’s your go to market strategy and they have all of these like consultant like terms and you’re like my go to market strategy is how do I get the most amount of reach for the least amount of money like isn’t that all of our strategies you know you could package it in all of these like you know fancy words and business speak but in reality like that’s what it is yeah and I think it’s so helpful too when you you find a space Maybe where people are really authentic and vulnerable about that so that you can see that you’re not the only one sitting there Googling things in the late hours of night to figure out what on Earth you’re doing in your business that no matter what their business looks like from the outside that they have gone through the same things behind the scenes totally and on that point Christine like I have to say you know I relied so much on help from others and what I learned is if you write a well-written thoughtful email to anyone they will respond and come with that vulnerability and say hey I’d love to pick your brain I respect you for these reasons and I think I could learn from you people respond and we I think that’s really those kind of connections and just getting help and putting ourselves out there and saying you know I don’t know what I’m doing or hey can I talk you through this thing that I’m thinking uh was such a great way to to really get us off the ground and build Connections in the industry yeah um well from that I would love to hear from you about your working with Lonely Planet and what it was like for that I guess phone call or email however that arrived and then kind of going back to like this is your baby how do you figure out like what it looks like when it grows up like does it go to planic college or does it like keep going on this independent track yeah you’re so right that it’s you know I say elsewhere is my first baby and it is it’ll always be my baby and you said before you know for good or bad and I agree that like sometimes you care too much and it means you don’t make the right decisions it’s important to have that amount of distance where you can make rational you know thoughtful decisions but it’s a hard decision to sell it um you know we were approached really early I think we have like a dream of a journey when it comes to startups we acquired at nine months um doesn’t mean that there were not ups and downs in those nine months like I said I still thought we could die at any day but you know it was a short journey in the terms of of startup Acquisitions and there’s a lot that went through our head you know on on one side we were so we were so overwhelmed that the fact that Lonely Planet was contacting us you know they sent us an email and you know they could have sent us a cease and assist and we would have been like oh my God they know where we are we don’t care you know it’s like we were just like Lely Planet it’s a brand that we admired and we’ve been carrying around books our entire lives and they remain one of the most respected you know thought leaders in the industry and so we were so overwhelmed and and just I mean there’s no word for how we felt you know when when we first got an email from them when we were interested in them talking they would did not say they were interested in an acquisition at first they kept it very very vague um and we would just have these conversations and later turned out that they said you know we’re in a partnership we’re an acquisition and uh yeah we were Overjoyed right I mean like I said not only this deep love for Lonely Planet but it meant that elsewhere would live on like and elsewh meant so much to us we cared so much and we wanted to see it be bigger than us you know we always had this dream that this is the way that that travel should be in the future but on the flip side you know there’s lots of other things like we started elsewhere because we essentially built our dream job you know like this is an the day-to-day is so fun we’re building these like really transformative Journeys from Travelers and the things that we hear back from the types of trips that we create is just so it’s just incredible you know and that keeps us going and that makes the day-to-day so fun and by selling it means it’s no longer ours and then on the other side too it we grow elsewhere as a stand brand and by selling it meant that we’d be a subsid subsidiary and a less important adjacent and that’s something that we didn’t really think through a lot and is maybe the only real con that I’d say about selling to Lonely Planet just in that when we’re looking at you know we’re considering ourselves as one company one business one team right now and anytime we have to opportunity size something it’s really hard to advocate for resources on the alare part of the business because it’s such a small subset every you know the opportunity and growth for Lonely Planet is just boundless we have so much more opportunity there so sometimes it’s hard to to get what we need on elsewhere and that’s the only real con other than that I mean we’re so happy to be aligned with the brand that we admire and trust and truly have respect for so we’ve been lucky to to sell yeah yeah thank you for for talking about that because I think in this industry too especially for a lot of small you know companies starting out that create really beautiful products acquisition is a conversation that happens and it’s it’s a way that you can continue and carry on like you said because it’s it’s a such a huge industry it’s volatile it has all of these moving parts and pieces as we’ve talked about and um I think that this this happens again more often than many people know about and I’ve seen a lot of my friends be approached or seen their businesses are acquired and um I just I was so curious like how you navigate that because I know it’s such a an emotional decision because so many of us in our in our businesses are really are are there because we we like have done all these other things and we’re like nope this is the thing this is the thing I want to exist in the world and so you create it and then all of a sudden you’re holding it and someone else it’s not yours yeah and you’re like oh like there’s it’s just such a an emotional thing to go through absolutely yeah yeah and when it came down to it we cared so much about our experts and we they’ll do I mean they are the heart and soul of our entire company and so to see them grow and to get more business and to be able to hire new people in their agency and see them expand I mean that’s why we’re doing what we’re doing you know yeah I can relate so much because even with the podcast where it started um and where it is now the idea that as like every person that finds the podcast like now hears about you and hears about any of my other guests and then supports their businesses and then you see that like Ripple out it’s huge to think about like that impact for these people that means so much to you right it’s like not about your own necessarily your own personal success but like we built this because it was important for all of the people who we felt were important in the industry and so that that also feels I think really different energetically to like to know that you like built this thing that is lifting other people people too absolutely yeah um well thank you so much for this beautiful conversation I have loved every minute I have just a few rapid fire questions or rapid fire is questions uh to end our time together um all right first uh question is what are you reading right now oh I’m reading range David Epstein I I don’t know that book but do you want to share oh my gosh now I’m hesitating on author’s name it’s about um it’s a business book it’s about how we live in a world of specialization and how actually generalists are the ones that thrive that being said I’m only a fourth of the way in but that’s the takeaway that I have right now perfect I love it I think that’s really important even about our conversation we’re having today so absolutely um what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel tiny scissors this is something that I know it’s so funny but I always end up using them they’re like the little the little makeup scissors so like a big pair of scissors Customs will take it but a tiny pair of scissors I swear I don’t know why but I always end up using it they’re just like utilitarian you can’t bring pocket knives anymore I don’t have any use for a knife so much but tiny scissors yeah actually I just really wish I had them in bise and I was thinking I’m like can those little tiny ones that like fold up into each other make it through security so your answering yes they can the ones about the SP um to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while um where is a place that you would still love to sojourn oh my gosh you know I spent eight years living in Paris and while I miss Europe so much I’m so interested I’m back in California now and I’m so interested in really exploring Central and South America spending time learning the language there took me a long time to learn French so I don’t have a specific location but it would be somewhere in Central or South America where I could learn Spanish and my daughter can learn Spanish it’s really really important to me yeah I think it’s so good and kids love the the like to be multilingual my kids are obsessed with Duolingo and they just start different languages all the time and they’re just like coming up and they’re like today I know how to say this in Japanese today I know how to say this in German I’m like okay maybe but they really are really open to understanding it um what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place place you’ve been do you mean at home or yeah just something you eat it it really reminds you of some place that you’ve traveled to gosh that’s such a hard question because I’ve traveled so much and so many things bring me back um you know one of my most like formational trips was a trip to Thailand that I did when I just got out of um high school again it was a trip by myself where I showed up with a ticket had no plans and had no idea what I was doing I just knew I needed to like do a border crossing to not overstay my 30-day visit um and so like a a curry like a very very spicy curry just brings me back to those trips in in the northern regions of Thailand when I had no idea what I was doing but I was had my lonely planed and that was guiding me yeah oh I wish I I need to go back and count like how many of my guests have had that kind of experience in Thailand and with their Lonely Planet because we didn’t have internet and cell phones and just landed there and just it welcomed us and like took us on our journey and you always land at like two in the morning but Christine it’s so funny like yeah it’s yeah what you’re saying about cell phones I was just talking to somebody about this and how I actually have this Nostalgia for travel without cell phones because it really meant we traveled so much more spontaneously then we didn’t have these set itineraries we didn’t you know we had to be guided by speaking with people you know and your Lonely Planet that was like a rough you know a rough very very rough information but you had to talk to people about getting to certain places and there was so much more interaction whereas now people are traveling they’re calling an Uber door too you miss so much and I have that Nostalgia for like you know it was much rougher there was much you know way worse stories that came out of it too but those are the things that you remember it’s like we travel too comfortably now yeah it’s such a different experience I could definitely do like a whole episode I think with people on that but I even think about when I just don’t feel like the discomfort of figuring out where to eat or having a a language barrier around that and you’re like Uber Eats to my room and you’re like wow I just cheated travel so much right now I’m sorry yeah um oh who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and travel the world I think it’s got to be my mom like I said she we didn’t travel internationally together but she has this very adventurous explorative inquisitive she’s really curious about places always wants to see what’s behind the next Hill um and she’d throw us all in the car and take us anywhere that we could drive to so we went all over California and all over the West um and she would have definitely T us taken us internationally if that was you know possible so I definitely get that from her yeah um if you could take an adventure with one person fictional or real alive or past who would it be my daughter she’s one years old almost one and I’m so so so excited to travel with her and see the world through her eyes and give her you know the sense of empathy curiosity appreciation of diverse cultures and really open her world up to different ways of living I feel like we’re so even more and more siloed we’re getting fed only things that feed our interests or that already are like you know confirmation bias confirming what we already believe in and travel is such a great way to get you out of that and to see things differently and talk to people who are different than you and live differently than you yeah 1,000% agree with with that and how important it is and know that you’ll have really beautiful experiences I I know that will be ahead for you um soul of travel is a space for recognizing women in the industry that we admire is there one person that would like to take a moment to celebrate in the space today yes her name is Catalina Mayorga she’s the founder of el CA travel um which is focused on on women traveling and she’s done amazing things both the actual trips that she creates and creating and fostering a real sense of community in her in her Travelers I really love the work that she’s doing yeah thank you so much for for recognizing her and again thank you for this conversation um it has been so fun I feel like we have talked about a lot of things that really mean a lot to me and I really appreciate the conversation Christine this is so much fun thank you so much for having me thank you [Music]
Christine Winebrenner Irick, Founder of Lotus Sojourns and Host of the award-winning Soul of Travel Podcast.
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women’s Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Alexis Bowen.
Alexis Bowen is a respected expert in the travel and tourism industry and co-founder of Elsewhere, a travel marketplace connecting travelers with local experts worldwide. She has been featured by top publications such as the New York Times, Vogue, and USA Today, and was chosen as the face of Canva’s ‘Start-up Success Story’ in their prime-time international television campaign. Drawing on her experience working with major industry players, and as a response to the state of the industry, Alexis co-launched Elsewhere in 2021 to shake up the all-too-traditional tourism space with a digital approach, values-driven mission, and direct-to-local model. The company was acquired by Lonely Planet in 2022.
When not focused on growing her company, Alexis can be found exploring. She has hitchhiked and couch-surfed her way around the world and is happiest in her simplest state – with only a backpack and a limited schedule. A California native, Alexis spent the last ten years living in Paris before recently relocating back to her home city of San Francisco to begin a new adventure – raising her little girl.
Christine and Alexis discuss:
· Shared passion for getting economic impact direct to local economies and communities
· How to avoid economic leakage in tourism
· How local experts add incredible value to travelers’ experiences
· Roller coaster of the entrepreneurial journey
· Being acquired by Lonely Planet
· Alexis’s solo travel journey to London with a case of wine as her only luggage
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Alexis Bowen.
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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website: https://www.souloftravelpodcast.com/season-5/episode174-alexis-bowen
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Discover your next adventure with Elsewhere by Lonely Planet: https://www.elsewhere.io/.
Connect with Alexis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-bowen-9ba18423/.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Alexis Bowen (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.